Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:03:42 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com ([64.12.138.206] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c3) with ESMTP id 819373 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:01:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.138.206; envelope-from=REHBINC@aol.com Received: from REHBINC@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r5.33.) id q.1a5.33e7c436 (3924) for ; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:00:53 -0500 (EST) From: REHBINC@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <1a5.33e7c436.2f74a0a4@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:00:52 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Superchargers X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1111705252" X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5116 -------------------------------1111705252 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter, Preignition results when a hotspot in the combustion chamber ignites the fuel air mixture in advance of the spark plug. Usually the source is a sharp corner or a carbon deposit. Something with plenty of surface to absorb heat but insufficient area to reject it. The result is similar to grossly over advanced timing. If you are lucky, you might find a hole melted through the top of the piston. Detonation is the result of the increase in temperature during the combustion event interacting with fuel elsewhere in the chamber that is already criticaly close to auto ignition conditions. Sometimes the mild shockwave emminating from the burning fuel is enough to push fuel in a hot part of the chamber to ignite. The result is multiple flame fronts, extremely fast pressure rise and not so mild shockwaves. The shockwaves disturb the boundary layer that insulates the combustion chamber walls and greatly increases heat transfer to the head and piston. Ironically, since more heat is lost to the combustion chamber, the exhaust temperature can actually go down, leading one to think there is no problem. If you are lucky, you might find broken rings or ring lands or possilbly a valve with a pie section missing. Both problems are commonly lumped together and low octane and high cylinder temps can result in either one. When preignition gets bad, it will destroy the engine faster than detonation. It also is harder to detect preignition before serious damage is done. One of the big issues with detonation is time. The longer the fuel spends in its hot and compressed state, the longer it has to decompose into compounds that ignite at lower energy levels. That is why increasing rpm is a effective at preventing detonation. Another approach is to make the distance that the flame front has to travel across the combustion chamber shorter. This has been one of the major advances in engine technology of the past few years from the automakers and is known as the fast burn head. The 4 valve, pent roof design has a much shorter long dimension than than the typical hotrod head of a '60's muscle car and with the spark plug in the middle the flame travel distance is shorter still. These heads can live what at least one point more compression on the same octane fuel. I'm not an A/P mechanic but I suspect that the aircraft engine heads have not kept up in this area. Anybody know? George? This could be a nitch for some entreprenuer to exploit in the experimental market. Cut your fuel costs in half, run premium auto fuel in your TSIO? Rob -------------------------------1111705252 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Walter,

Preignition results when a hotspot in the combustion chamber ignites th= e fuel air mixture in advance of the spark plug. Usually the source is a sha= rp corner or a carbon deposit. Something with plenty of surface to abso= rb heat but insufficient area to reject it. The result is similar to gr= ossly over advanced timing. If you are lucky, you might find a hole melted t= hrough the top of the piston.

Detonation is the result of the increase in temperature during the comb= ustion event interacting with fuel elsewhere in the chamber that is already=20= criticaly close to auto ignition conditions. Sometimes the mild shockwa= ve emminating from the burning fuel is enough to push fuel in a hot part of=20= the chamber to ignite. The result is multiple flame fronts, extremely fast p= ressure rise and not so mild shockwaves. The shockwaves disturb the boundary= layer that insulates the combustion chamber walls and greatly increases hea= t transfer to the head and piston. Ironically, since more heat is lost to th= e combustion chamber, the exhaust temperature can actually go down, leading=20= one to think there is no problem. If you are lucky, you might find broken ri= ngs or ring lands or possilbly a valve with a pie section missing.

Both problems are commonly lumped together and low octane and high cyli= nder temps can result in either one. When preignition gets bad, it will dest= roy the engine faster than detonation. It also is harder to detect preigniti= on before serious damage is done.

One of the big issues with detonation is time. The longer the fuel spen= ds in its hot and compressed state, the longer it has to decompose into comp= ounds that ignite at lower energy levels. That is why increasing rpm is a ef= fective at preventing detonation. Another approach is to make the distance t= hat the flame front has to travel across the combustion chamber shorter. Thi= s has been one of the major advances in engine technology of the past few ye= ars from the automakers and is known as the fast burn head.

The 4 valve, pent roof design has a much shorter long dimension than th= an the typical hotrod head of a '60's muscle car and with the spark plu= g in the middle the flame travel distance is shorter still. These heads= can live what at least one point more compression on the same octane fuel.<= /DIV>

I'm not an A/P mechanic but I suspect that the aircraft engine heads ha= ve not kept up in this area. Anybody know? George?

This could be a nitch for some entreprenuer to exploit in the expe= rimental market. Cut your fuel costs in half, run premium auto fuel in your=20= TSIO?

Rob

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