Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:09:28 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP id 727690 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:38:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.137; envelope-from=Sky2high@aol.com Received: from Sky2high@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r3.8.) id q.7d.62e6a778 (3924) for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:37:13 -0500 (EST) From: Sky2high@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <7d.62e6a778.2f414cb8@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 19:37:12 EST Subject: Re: [LML] Re: EGT's on O-360 X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1108341432" X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5000 -------------------------------1108341432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 2/13/2005 6:05:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, =20 Walter@advancedpilot.com writes: **Electronic ignitions and "fine wire" plugs each can also reduce EGT =20 temps and, as I have both,** Could you postulate WHY or HOW that can happen? I know of no reason=20 and have never noticed: A) ANY change in EGT with massive vs. Fine wire plugs. Test data does =20 not confirm the claim. B) ANY change in EGT based on what generates the spark. Test data does=20 not confirm the claim. To get a lower EGT, you MUST have the spark advanced. That will not=20 result in a better situation. The TIMING of the spark event is what will alter the EGT, not the=20 intensity of the spark or where it comes from or through what type of=20 plug. Until someone comes up with a plausible scientific explanation=20 of how the source of the spark can alter the EGT and can show test data=20 to confirm it, I don't believe it. The physics is still everywhere the=20 same. If you are getting lower EGTs, the spark is occurring EARLIER. =20 Period. That will result in higher ICPs and decreased durability. Walter, =20 You are all alone..................................... Evidence =20 counts....................=20 I never said what constitutes an electronic ignition - almost all advance=20 the spark under certain conditions of RPM and/or MAP and/or cyl pressure. =20= I am=20 tired of hearing constant claims about what does not happen when others hav= e=20 experiences that do not match whatever it is that you measure.=20 From a Unison ad:=20 Unison Industries now offers a new line of Autolite XL Fine Wire Aviation=20 Spark Plugs. The $72 plugs have iridium wires that are less susceptible=20 to corrosion than conventional plugs. The company promises the plugs will=20 last longer and provide better combustion. Bruce Bohannon, who in November=20 will attempt to set a world altitude record of 50,000 feet in his piston- powered Exxon "Flyin' Tiger," said he recently installed the plugs and=20 noticed a 100-degree drop in exhaust gas temperatures.=20 And, from the GAMI PRISM ad:=20 GAMI's Electronic Ignition, PRISM=E2=84=A2 =20 ____________________________________ =20 PRISM=E2=84=A2 (Pressure Reactive Intelligent Spark Management) Features: =E2=80=A2Optimized Spark Timing to achieve maximum brake torque =E2=80=A2Simple, fewer moving parts, fiber optic design =E2=80=A2Increased horsepower at all power settings=20 =E2=80=A2Smoother engine operation- reduces coefficient of variation of com= bustion-=20 even on lean mixtures =E2=80=A2More efficient engine operation-CDI produces larger spark at optim= ized time=20 BTDC =E2=80=A2Replaces both magnetos- no overhaul required prior to TBO =E2=80=A2Fully redundant design- proven electronic durability with quad red= undant=20 ignition =E2=80=A2Includes GAMI's _Supplenator=E2=84=A2_ (http://www.gami.com/supplen= ator.html) =20 Supplemental Alternator- back-up power to primary alternator and battery an= d=20 GAMI's _PDU=E2=84=A2_ (http://www.gami.com/pdupostersmall.jpg) Panel Displa= y Unit =20 =E2=80=A2Automatic detection/prevention of detonation=20 =E2=80=A2Maintains lower peak cylinder pressures- reduced loads on power tr= ain=20 components, longer engine life =E2=80=A2Allows for the future use of lower octane, unleaded fuels. This is=20= the only=20 system on the millennial horizon that is inherently compatible with lower=20 octane, unleaded fuels. =E2=80=A2Champion=C2=AE ignition components (spark plugs, wires, coils)=20 =E2=80=A2Optional panel display of actual real-time horsepower and torque =E2=80=A2Optional digital tachometer =E2=80=A2Optional extensive on-board engine diagnostic capability =E2=80=A2Improved fuel economy- lower BSFCs than previously possible =E2=80=A2Significantly lower EGTs/TITs for reduced exhaust system maintenan= ce =20 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<=20 FAA STC certification expected soon! =20 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< =20 =20 From Light Speed Engineering: =20 PLASMA III CAPACITIVE DISCHARGE IGNITION SYSTEM =20 Light Speed Engineering has introduced a new ignition system to its line of= =20 products. The new Plasma III Capacitor Discharge System is the latest high= =20 performance ignition for all 4-cyl and 6-cyl aircraft engines. Its long=20 duration spark and optimized timing curve makes more horsepower and improve= s=20 fuel efficiency- at all altitudes. Other benefits include quick starts, red= uced=20 maintenance, light weight, lower EGT=E2=80=99s and up to 20% more range. As= with all=20 LSE ignitions, RPM and manifold pressure inputs are used for our proprietar= y=20 timing curves. The Plasma III is also capable of displaying the current=20 timing advance, manifold pressure and rpm on an optional lightweight LCD di= splay. =20 And, from my own experience, I have seen the changes that I claimed CAN=20 occur........=20 BTW, Advancing the spark under certain conditions and with certain engines=20 improves the performance and fuel economy. Period. Certain components can=20 contribute to a reduction in EGTs. Stop making general claims about the fe= w=20 unidentified cases where this does not work. Too many have reported us whe= re it=20 does work, including PRISM, LASAR, FADEC, Light Speed Engineering, Bruce=20 Bohannon, et al. Get out of the lab and into the =20 air............................. Scott Krueger AKA Grayhawk Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96 Aurora, IL (KARR) Fair and Balanced Opinions at No Charge! There is an oxymoron in that, somewhere... -------------------------------1108341432 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
In a message dated 2/13/2005 6:05:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 Walter@advancedpilot.com writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>**Electronic ignitions and "fine wire" plugs each can also reduce= EGT=20
temps and, as I have both,**

Could you postulate WHY or HOW tha= t=20 can happen?  I know of no reason
and have never noticed:

A= )=20 ANY change in EGT with massive vs. Fine wire plugs.  Test data does=20
not confirm the claim.

B) ANY change in EGT based on what gener= ates=20 the spark.  Test data does
not confirm the claim.

To get a= =20 lower EGT, you MUST have the spark advanced.  That will not
resul= t in=20 a better situation.

The TIMING of the spark event is what will alte= r=20 the EGT, not the
intensity of the spark or where it comes from or thro= ugh=20 what type of
plug.  Until someone comes up with a plausible=20 scientific explanation
of how the source of the spark can alter the EG= T=20 and can show test data
to confirm it, I don't believe it.  The=20 physics is still everywhere the
same.  If you are getting lower E= GTs,=20 the spark is occurring EARLIER. 
Period.  That will result i= n=20 higher ICPs and decreased durability.

 

Walter,

 

You are all=20 alone..................................... Evidence=20 counts....................

 

I never said what consti= tutes=20 an electronic ignition - almost all advance the spark under certain conditio= ns=20 of RPM and/or MAP and/or cyl pressure.  I am tired of hearing constant=20 claims about what does not happen when others have experiences that do not m= atch=20 whatever it is that you measure.

 

From a Unison ad:=

 

Unison Industries now of= fers a=20 new line of Autolite XL Fine Wire Aviation
Spark Plugs. The $72 plugs ha= ve=20 iridium wires that are less susceptible
to corrosion than conventional=20 plugs. The company promises the plugs will
last longer and provide bette= r=20 combustion. Bruce Bohannon, who in November
will attempt to set a world=20 altitude record of 50,000 feet in his piston-
powered Exxon "Flyin' Tiger= ,"=20 said he recently installed the plugs and
noticed a 100-degree drop in=20 exhaust gas temperatures.

 

And, from the GAMI PRISM= =20 ad:

 

GAMI's Electronic Ignition, PRISM=E2=84=A2

PRISM=E2=84=A2
(Pressure Reactive Intel= ligent=20 Spark Management)

Features:
=E2=80=A2Optimized Spark Timing to a= chieve maximum=20 brake torque

=E2=80=A2Simple, fewer moving parts, fiber optic=20 design

=E2=80=A2Increased horsepower at all power settings

= =E2=80=A2Smoother=20 engine operation- reduces coefficient of variation of combustion- even on le= an=20 mixtures

=E2=80=A2More efficient engine operation-CDI produces larger= spark at=20 optimized time BTDC

=E2=80=A2Replaces both magnetos- no overhaul requ= ired prior=20 to TBO

=E2=80=A2Fully redundant design- proven electronic durability=20= with quad=20 redundant ignition

=E2=80=A2Includes GAMI's Supplenator=E2=84=A2 Suppl= emental=20 Alternator- back-up power to primary alternator and battery and GAMI's PDU=E2=84=A2 Panel Displ= ay Unit=20

=E2=80=A2Automatic detection/prevention of detonation

=E2= =80=A2Maintains lower=20 peak cylinder pressures- reduced loads on power train components, longer eng= ine=20 life

=E2=80=A2Allows for the future use of lower octane, unleaded fue= ls. This is=20 the only system on the millennial horizon that is inherently compatible with= =20 lower octane, unleaded fuels.

=E2=80=A2Champion=C2=AE ignition compon= ents (spark=20 plugs, wires, coils)

=E2=80=A2Optional panel display of actual real-= time=20 horsepower and torque

=E2=80=A2Optional digital tachometer

= =E2=80=A2Optional=20 extensive on-board engine diagnostic capability

=E2=80=A2Improved fue= l economy-=20 lower BSFCs than previously possible

=E2=80=A2Significantly lower EGT= s/TITs for=20 reduced exhaust system maintenance=20 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<= <<<<<


FAA STC certificat= ion=20 expected soon!

 =
<<<<<<= <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<= <<
 =
 =
From Light Sp= eed=20 Engineering:
 =
PLASMA IIICAPACITIVE DISCHARGE IGNITION=20 SYSTEM  

= Light=20 Speed Engineering has introduced a new ignition system to its line of=20 products.  The new Plasma III=20 Capacitor Discharge System is the latest high performance ignition for all 4= -cyl=20 and 6-cyl aircraft engines.  I= ts=20 long duration spark and optimized timing curve makes more horsepower and=20 improves fuel efficiency- at all altitudes. Other benefits include quick sta= rts,=20 reduced maintenance, light weight, lower EGT=E2=80=99s and up to 20% more ra= nge.  As with all LSE ignitions, RPM and= =20 manifold pressure inputs are used for our proprietary timing curves. The Pla= sma=20 III is also capable of displaying the current timing advance, manifold press= ure=20 and rpm on an optional lightweight LCD display.

And, from my own experience, I have seen the ch= anges=20 that I claimed CAN occur........

BTW, Advancing the spark under certain conditions an= d with=20 certain engines improves the performance and fuel economy. Period.  Cer= tain=20 components can contribute to a reduction in EGTs.  Stop making general=20 claims about the few unidentified cases where this does not work.  Too=20= many=20 have reported us where it does work, including PRISM, LASAR, FADEC, Lig= ht=20 Speed Engineering, Bruce Bohannon, et al.  Get out of the lab and into=20= the=20 air.............................

Scott Krueger=20 AKA Grayhawk
Lancair N92EX IO320 SB 89/96
Aurora, IL (KARR)

Fai= r=20 and Balanced Opinions at No Charge!
There is an oxymoron in that,=20 somewhere...

-------------------------------1108341432--