Return-Path: Sender: "Marvin Kaye" To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:47:40 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net ([216.148.227.85] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 588895 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Jan 2005 09:47:34 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.85; envelope-from=nrgarvin@comcast.net Received: from mole410xp (c-67-177-102-149.client.comcast.net[67.177.102.149]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005010214470201400r1ch3e>; Sun, 2 Jan 2005 14:47:02 +0000 From: "Neal Garvin" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" X-Original-Cc: "'Skip Slater'" Subject: B&C Alternator Electric problems X-Original-Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 09:47:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01C4F0B0.0530C890" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Thread-Index: AcTwcHv2KHhLos8tRW+sQ4h7q8ewkgAZSN7Q X-Original-Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C4F0B0.0530C890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a similar problem with the B&C 60 Amp alternator on my Glasair. After a year of trouble free operation, the alternator started intermittently go off-line, tripping the field breaker. My first "alternator out" event was over water at night. It took two months to finally figure it out. It turned out to be a poor connection of the field wire in the push-on connector on the back of the alternator. These are the blade type connectors inside a plastic housing. Every time I unplugged/plugged it to check the connection, it would wipe the connection clean and it would work for a few weeks which is why it was so hard to diagnose. There are three blade type connectors in the alternators receptacle housing. Only one connection is used for the field wire. Note however that two of the wire connector tabs in the alternator housing are internally connected together and they can both be connected to the field wire for redundancy. I had made two mistakes when installing the alternator connections: 1) I used only one connector in the plastic plug housing so the entire plug was not very stable in the alternator receptacle. 2) I soldered the wires to the female spade connectors in the plug after crimping them. Soldering was a BAD idea. It annealed (softened) the female spade connector so it didn't have a firm grip on the male counterpart in the alternator receptacle. Utilizing only one of the connectors in the plug allowed the entire make plug assy to wobble in the alternator female housing. This combination resulted in a loose connection that would arc, increase the connection resistance reducing the alternator output which the regulator would compensate for by increasing the field voltage/current until the field breaker would trip. I solved the problem by installing all 3 new connectors (crimped only) in the plug housing to stabilize the connector plug when it is plugged into the alternator. One of the connectors wasn't connected to any wire - it is only used to help stabilize the plug assy. I also wired the two field connectors in the male plug together with a jumper wire for redundancy. I don't recall which of the two of the connectors are internally connected inside the alternator but B&C can tell you or you can just measure with an ohmmeter. When I installed the male plug assy into the alternator receptacle, I put a bead of silicone around the plug to further stabilize the connector and eliminate any movement between the two. I also put a dab of silicone around the wires where they go into the male plastic receptacle to provide additional stability. I've had no problems in 6 years/700 hours since re-doing the alternator connection. Hope this helps. Neal Garvin Glasair SIIS-RG N15F 820 hrs - 7 yrs _____ From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Skip Slater Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:12 PM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Electric problems I've had an electrical problem happen for the second time now and wanted to float it by the LML to see if its happened to anyone else. I have a B&C 14 volt, 60 amp alternator as well as one of their voltage regulators. They were trouble free for about two years until about 5 weeks ago when I went to go fly and couldn't get my alternator to come on line. It was an uncharacteristically cold and damp day when this happened (my plane is hangared, so it wasn't wet). After an hour of fruitless troubleshooting, I had to cancel my flight and head for the airlines to get where I was going. A few days later on a nice sunny day, I pulled off the cowl and ran through B&C's troubleshooting checklist before calling their tech support to report that everything appeared normal. The technician I spoke to had me do a couple of other things, then told me it should work. I pulled the plane out, started it up and my alternator came on normally. I've flown several times since then with no problems, but today when I went to go slip the surly bonds, it happened again. Once again, it's cool, damp weather and has been raining for several days. I don't know if that's coincidental or not, but this time, I'm waiting for a warm dry day and will try to start up again without doing a thing and see if it works. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this sort of thing happen with their B&C alternator and/or voltage regulator or if there's something obvious I may be overlooking. Thanks, Skip Slater N540ES ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01C4F0B0.0530C890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had a similar problem with the B&C 60 = Amp=20 alternator on my Glasair.  After a year of trouble free operation, = the=20 alternator started intermittently go off-line, tripping the field=20 breaker.  My first "alternator out" event was over water at night. = It took=20 two months to finally figure it out. It turned out to be a poor = connection=20 of the field wire in the push-on connector on the back of the=20 alternator. These are the blade type connectors inside a plastic = housing.=20 Every time I unplugged/plugged it to check the connection, it would wipe = the=20 connection clean and it would work for a few weeks which is why it was = so hard=20 to diagnose.
 
There are three blade type connectors in the=20 alternators receptacle housing. Only one connection is used for the = field=20 wire.  Note however that two of the wire connector tabs = in the=20 alternator housing are internally connected together and they can = both be=20 connected to the field wire for redundancy.
 
I had made two mistakes when installing the = alternator=20 connections: 1) I used only one connector in the plastic plug = housing so=20 the entire plug was not very stable in the alternator receptacle. = 2) I=20 soldered the wires to the female spade connectors in the plug after = crimping=20 them.
 
Soldering was a BAD idea. It annealed = (softened) the=20 female spade connector so it didn't have a firm grip on the male = counterpart in=20 the alternator receptacle. Utilizing only one of the connectors in the = plug=20 allowed the entire make plug assy to wobble in the alternator = female=20 housing. This combination resulted in a loose connection that would arc, = increase the connection resistance reducing the alternator output = which the=20 regulator would compensate for by increasing the field=20 voltage/current until the field breaker would = trip.
 
I solved the problem by installing all 3 = new=20 connectors (crimped only) in the plug housing to stabilize the connector = plug=20 when it is plugged into the alternator. One of the connectors wasn't = connected=20 to any wire - it is only used to help stabilize the plug assy. I = also wired=20 the two field connectors in the male plug together with a jumper = wire for=20 redundancy.  I don't recall which of the two of the connectors are=20 internally connected inside the alternator but B&C can tell you or = you can=20 just measure with an ohmmeter.  When I installed the male plug assy = into=20 the alternator receptacle, I put a bead of silicone around the plug to = further=20 stabilize the connector and eliminate any movement between the two. I = also put a=20 dab of silicone around the wires where they go into the male plastic = receptacle=20 to provide additional stability.
 
I've had no problems in 6 years/700 hours = since=20 re-doing the alternator connection.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Neal Garvin
Glasair SIIS-RG N15F  820 hrs -  7=20 yrs
 
 

From: Lancair Mailing List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Skip = Slater
Sent:=20 Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:12 PM
To: Lancair Mailing=20 List
Subject: [LML] Electric problems

I've had an electrical problem happen = for the=20 second time now and wanted to float it by the LML to see if its happened = to=20 anyone else.
I have a B&C 14 volt, 60 amp = alternator as well=20 as one of their voltage regulators.  They were trouble free = for about=20 two years until about 5 weeks ago when I went to go fly and couldn't get = my=20 alternator to come on line.  It was an uncharacteristically cold = and damp=20 day when this happened (my plane is hangared, so it wasn't wet).  = After an=20 hour of fruitless troubleshooting, I had to cancel my flight and = head for=20 the airlines to get where I was going. 
   A few days later on a nice = sunny day,=20 I pulled off the cowl and ran through B&C's troubleshooting = checklist before=20 calling their tech support to report that everything appeared = normal.  The=20 technician I spoke to had me do a couple of other things, then told me = it should=20 work.  I pulled the plane out, started it up and my alternator = came on=20 normally.
  I've flown several times = since then=20 with no problems, but today when I went to go slip the surly bonds, = it happened again.  Once again, it's cool, damp weather and = has been=20 raining for several days.  I don't know if that's coincidental or = not, but=20 this time, I'm waiting for a warm dry day and will try to start up again = without=20 doing a thing and see if it works.
   I'm wondering if anyone = else has had=20 this sort of thing happen with their B&C alternator and/or voltage = regulator=20 or if there's something obvious I may be overlooking.
   Thanks,
   Skip Slater
   = N540ES
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