Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 21:27:52 -0500 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from smtp2.bendcable.com ([216.228.160.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 2774130 for lml@lancaironline.net; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:34:01 -0500 Received: from Ultra2gig (unverified [66.220.122.238]) by SM2 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.3.6) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:33:52 -0800 From: "Larry Klaas" X-Original-To: "'Lancair Mailing List'" Subject: De-ice System on IV P X-Original-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:33:57 -0800 X-Original-Message-ID: <000901c3b46d$618ea880$6501a8c0@Ultra2gig> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B42A.536B6880" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B42A.536B6880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a fair amount of ice experience in a 4-P. If you fly IFR you = will get ice sooner or later. I have had bad ice with no forecast ice, and absolutely no ice with forecast ice. You just never know when it will happen, but it will happen. =20 =20 One of the worst issues is the alternate induction air system that opens when the induction air is iced up. The alt air door opens and uses hot = cowl air which gives you a hot engine. So when you need power the most with = a load of ice you have to deal with reduced power to keep the engine from overheating CHT's. It's really no fun. =20 I think the most important issues to solve are propeller ice and = induction ice. I have heard of one 4-p driver who flew with 6 inches on the = leading edges, but he had full power available as his alternate air system did = not overheat his engine. He had an MT prop which for some reason does not = ice up, in my experience, like the metal props. Keep it waxed or with a = metal prop have prop deice. Having baseball bats as propellers will not work. =20 I could never get my alt ind air to work without a hot engine. A K&N = filter helped some. I would have a manual lever to open the alt air door so = that you know how that system will work before you need it. Make sure it can somehow get as cool air as possible. I have talked to other experienced owners with the same problem. =20 Another fun event I had was an iced up static air system. I landed thru heavy snow that turned to rain before landing. It rained hard all night = and I was parked outside. I departed into forecast ice, encountered no ice, = but did freeze up the static air. No airspeed, VS, altimeter, or auto = pilot, and I was in the soup with my angle of attack system screaming "stall." = I used power settings and my GPS to help out until I broke out at FL220. = I did have a collector on the static air system. =20 =20 I think the power and prop are the most important, with wing deice last = on the priority list. I have spoken to many people with wing deice systems = (on certified planes) that very seldom use them. Keep your prop free of = ice, your engine power available with a good alt induction air system, and = get out of any icing as soon as you encounter it. My dealings with center = is that they will get you to another altitude if you tell them you are encountering ice. =20 =20 I sold my piston and am doing a turbine. I am making sure I have a good alternate induction air system, ice doors so I don't flame out, and no = wing deice. I have looked at all the wing deice systems and decided to wait until they are more proven. As long as I have power, a prop, and a = backup plan I feel pretty good about my chances. =20 =20 Mike Custard in Bend is selling a NASA developed 'thumper' system. To = my knowledge it has yet to be 'thumped' in a Lancair in ice so nobody knows = how that works with a composite wing over time. Lancair is selling the = glycol system. =20 =20 With a P fly around the bad weather when possible, don't succumb to the 'direct route' thinking if you can add a little time to the flight but = avoid the worst weather. Maybe leave a little sooner or later than planned = and avoid the heavy stuff. =20 Be sure to have a backup plan with a way out. That is another issue. =20 Larry Klaas 2625 NW Ordway Ave Bend, OR 97701-5497 Tel: 541-388-2420 Fax: 413-581-0178 LDK@bendcable.com =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3B42A.536B6880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have a fair amount of ice = experience in a 4-P.  If you fly IFR you will get ice sooner or later.  I = have had bad ice with no forecast ice, and absolutely no ice with forecast = ice.  You just never know when it will happen, but it will happen.  =

 

One of the worst issues is the = alternate induction air system that opens when the induction air is iced up.  The alt = air door opens and uses hot cowl air which gives you a hot engine.  So when = you need power the most with a load of ice you have to deal with reduced = power to keep the engine from overheating CHT’s.  It’s really no = fun.

 

I think the most important issues = to solve are propeller ice and induction ice.  I have heard of one 4-p = driver who flew with 6 inches on the leading edges, but he had full power available = as his alternate air system did not overheat his engine.  He had an MT = prop which for some reason does not ice up, in my experience, like the metal = props.  Keep it waxed or with a metal prop have prop deice.  Having baseball = bats as propellers will not work.

 

I could never get my alt = ind air to work = without a hot engine.  A K&N filter helped some.  I would have a = manual lever to open the alt air door so that you know how that system will = work before you need it.  Make sure it can somehow get as cool air as = possible.  I have talked to other experienced owners with the same = problem.

 

Another fun event I had was an iced = up static air system.  I landed thru heavy snow that turned to rain = before landing.  It rained hard all night and I was parked outside.  = I departed into forecast ice, encountered no ice, but did freeze up the static = air.  No airspeed, VS, altimeter, or auto pilot, and I was in the soup with my = angle of attack system screaming “stall.”  I used power settings = and my GPS to help out until I broke out at FL220.  I did have a collector = on the static air system. 

 

I think the power and prop are the = most important, with wing deice last on the priority list.  I have = spoken to many people with wing deice systems (on certified planes) that very = seldom use them.  Keep your prop free of ice, your engine power available with = a good alt induction air system, and get out of any icing as soon as you = encounter it.  My dealings with center is that they will get you to another = altitude if you tell them you are encountering ice. 

 

I sold my piston and am doing a turbine.  I am making sure I have a good alternate induction air = system, ice doors so I don’t flame out, and no wing deice.  I have = looked at all the wing deice systems and decided to wait until they are more proven.  As long as I have power, a prop, and a backup plan I feel = pretty good about my chances. 

 

Mike Custard in Bend is selling a = NASA developed ‘thumper’ system.  To my knowledge it has yet = to be ‘thumped’ in a Lancair in ice so nobody knows how that works with a composite wing = over time.  Lancair is selling the glycol system.  =

 

With a P fly around the bad weather = when possible, don’t succumb to the ‘direct route’ thinking = if you can add a little time to the flight but avoid the worst weather.  = Maybe leave a little sooner or later than planned and avoid the heavy = stuff.

 

Be sure to have a backup plan with = a way out.  That is another issue.

 

Larry = Klaas

2625 NW Ordway = Ave

Bend= , OR 97701-5497<= /font>

Tel: = 541-388-2420  Fax: 413-581-0178

LDK@bendcable.com<= /span>

 

 

 

 

 

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