Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:50:18 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: <2thman@olympus.net> Received: from mail2.bllvwa.cablespeed.com ([66.235.59.9] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.5) with SMTP id 2632301 for lml@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:34:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 29731 invoked by uid 0); 11 Oct 2003 03:34:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO JohnHome) (66.235.31.92) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Oct 2003 03:34:40 -0000 From: "John Barrett" <2thman@olympus.net> X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" Subject: RE: [LML] Re: SPAM[RBL] [LML] Re: IV-P IFR training X-Original-Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:34:36 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F1_01C38F6D.EB7B4F00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F1_01C38F6D.EB7B4F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep, I've had that happen a couple times in heavy snow - you get a slug of the wet stuff and just about the time you're trying to remember where the alternate air source is, the thing fires right back up. Those experiences (for me) were the extremes and occurred when I decided to go into heavy precip in pretty hard IFR conditions over mountain passes where there's lots of unstable air. These conditions were forecast and reported during my weather brief. I essentially knew the risks I was taking. I'm not saying this a a good thing for every new IFR pilot to do, or for that matter, for most IFR trained pilots to ever do. I'm comfortable with it sometimes, but I doubt if many pilots are or even should be. But there is one HUGE gap between flying in these conditions and not flying in the clouds ever, or even not flying in the clouds unless you have a low marine layer with no zero degree temps, etc, etc. as has been suggested in related postings. There are a myriad of IFR days with below freezing temps where you can fly IFR, avoid almost all risky encounters and still get from A to B MORE safely than trying to dodge the clouds and get there VFR. I've had some friends and acquaintances over the years who tried to fly VFR when they should have gone IFR and I miss them now that they're dead. I'll say it again - the engines don't stop running just because they encounter the clouds! Regards, John Barrett Barrett/Garrett Enterprises, Inc. PO Box 428 Pt. Hadlock, WA 98339 www.carbinge.com -----Original Message----- From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of David Lowry Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:58 AM To: Lancair Mailing List Subject: [LML] Re: SPAM[RBL] [LML] Re: IV-P IFR training Well actually. I was climbing out on a missed approach and hit a wall of rain that killed the engine. I put the nose down and looked where the runway should be and it started up again. Still fly IFR though. David Lowry ----- the engines don't stop running just because they encounter the clouds. ------=_NextPart_000_01F1_01C38F6D.EB7B4F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yep, I've had that happen a couple = times in=20 heavy snow - you get a slug of the wet stuff and just about the time = you're=20 trying to remember where the alternate air source is, the thing fires = right back=20 up.

Those experiences (for me) were = the extremes=20 and occurred when I decided to go into heavy precip in pretty hard IFR=20 conditions over mountain passes where there's lots of unstable = air. These=20 conditions were forecast and reported during my weather brief. I=20 essentially knew the risks I was taking. I'm not saying this a a = good=20 thing for every new IFR pilot to do, or for that matter, for most IFR = trained=20 pilots to ever do. I'm comfortable with it sometimes, but I doubt = if many=20 pilots are or even should be.

But there is one HUGE gap between = flying in=20 these conditions and not flying in the clouds ever, or even not = flying in=20 the clouds unless you have a low marine layer with no zero degree temps, = etc,=20 etc. as has been suggested in related postings. There are = a=20 myriad of IFR days with below freezing temps where you can fly IFR, = avoid almost=20 all risky encounters and still get from A to B MORE safely than = trying to=20 dodge the clouds and get there VFR. I've had some friends and=20 acquaintances over the years who tried to fly VFR when they should have = gone IFR=20 and I miss them now that they're dead.

I'll say it again - the engines = don't stop=20 running just because they encounter the clouds!

Regards,
John Barrett
Barrett/Garrett = Enterprises,=20 Inc.
PO Box 428
Pt. Hadlock, WA 98339
www.carbinge.com=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Lancair = Mailing List=20 [mailto:lml@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of David = Lowry
Sent:=20 Friday, October 10, 2003 9:58 AM
To: Lancair Mailing=20 List
Subject: [LML] Re: SPAM[RBL] [LML] Re: IV-P IFR=20 training

Well actually. I was climbing out on a missed = approach=20 and hit a wall of rain that

killed the engine. I put the nose down = and looked=20 where the runway should be and it

started up again. Still fly IFR=20 though.

David Lowry

----- the=20 engines don't stop running just because they encounter the=20 clouds.

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