Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:28:45 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.3) with ESMTP id 2573968 for lml@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:32:22 -0400 Received: from JIMRHER@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id q.1e2.fa2b960 (4328) for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: JIMRHER@aol.com X-Original-Message-ID: <1e2.fa2b960.2c8fa0e1@aol.com> X-Original-Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:32:17 EDT Subject: Gross Weight & Balance of IV-P X-Original-To: lml@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1e2.fa2b960.2c8fa0e1_boundary" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 910 --part1_1e2.fa2b960.2c8fa0e1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerry, I have my L4P registered at #3400 gross, which I think is recommended by=20 almost everyone that I talked too. My airplane is heavy and seams to fly wit= h an=20 aft CG. I have flown it at #3550 lbs. with talk-offs at DA of 8500 ft. It do= es=20 take longer to get flying but flies fine (210 hrs). I just talked to a Turbine guy that is flying his at #4600 lbs Gross and he=20 says it climbs and flies fine (My mouth was hanging open). The wing seams to= be=20 strong enough but the two concerns are the landing gear and the stall speed,= =20 especially at clean take off. I now rotate at 80 Kts to allow for turbulence= =20 and aileron authority. The Landing gear must have been designed for a drop rate or G loading for a=20 hard landing. So even at the original #3000 lbs Gr. there should be some saf= ety=20 factor. Does anyone know the design numbers for the gear? I know of one=20 accident that happened many years ago when a pilot took off for the first ti= me with=20 4 people and hadn't trimmed it for that. It over rotated and he pulled the=20 power. It dropped in from several feet up breaking the noise gear and engine= =20 mount. The mechanic that repaired it called the factory to get new parts for= the=20 main gear a was told that if the gear didn't come through the wing that is w= as=20 still OK. I don't know for sure if this is a rumor or the truth but I also=20 know that the very early gear box did have some failures at the fuselage=20 attachment and since being redesigned I haven't heard of that type of failur= e. Anyone=20 know about that? One better make a very smooth landing if your at those #400= 0=20 lb weights. It would be interesting to know what the stall speed is at #4600= =20 lbs.? Keep the Mach Up, Jim Hergert N6XE, "An Sex Y" L4P When I first researched IV-P, in the early 90's, the gross weight according=20 to=A0the factory was 3000 lb, then a few years later, listed at 3200 lb.=A0=20= This=20 was the weight we used when we had our plane's final inspection.=A0 I now no= te on=20 the Lancair Website that the maximum gross for the IV-P is listed as 3550=20 lb.=A0It is also my understanding in talking to other builders that it is po= ssible=20 for a builder to certify a higher gross simply by flying the plane with grea= ter=20 weights and re-doing=A0stall speeds. =A0My questions to=A0ask the opinion of= the=20 LML group=A0are as follows:=A0 =A0 1.=A0 Does the 3550 lb gross weight apply to all IV-P's or just to the turbi= ne=20 IV-P's? 2.=A0 Have any builders already increased the maximum gross of their plane,=20= and=20 if so, what procedures did you follow to make it legal? 3.=A0 I have heard builders express confidence that the IV-PT can handle=A0a= max=20 weight of 4000 pounds, has anyone flown their plane with that much weight?=20 =A0 Gerry Leinweber, C-GLFP 150+ hours and climbing =20 --part1_1e2.fa2b960.2c8fa0e1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerry,

I have my L4P registered at #3400 gross, which I think is recommended by alm= ost everyone that I talked too. My airplane is heavy and seams to fly with a= n aft CG. I have flown it at #3550 lbs. with talk-offs at DA of 8500 ft. It=20= does take longer to get flying but flies fine (210 hrs).
I just talked to a Turbine guy that is flying his at #4600 lbs Gross and he=20= says it climbs and flies fine (My mouth was hanging open). The wing seams to= be strong enough but the two concerns are the landing gear and the stall sp= eed, especially at clean take off. I now rotate at 80 Kts to allow for turbu= lence and aileron authority.
The Landing gear must have been designed for a drop rate or G loading for a=20= hard landing. So even at the original #3000 lbs Gr. there should be some saf= ety factor. Does anyone know the design numbers for the gear? I know of one=20= accident that happened many years ago when a pilot took off for the first ti= me with 4 people and hadn't trimmed it for that. It over rotated and he pull= ed the power. It dropped in from several feet up breaking the noise gear and= engine mount. The mechanic that repaired it called the factory to get new p= arts for the main gear a was told that if the gear didn't come through the w= ing that is was still OK. I don't know for sure if this is a rumor or the tr= uth but I also know that the very early gear box did have some failures at t= he fuselage attachment and since being redesigned I haven't heard of that ty= pe of failure. Anyone know about that? One better make a very smooth landing= if your at those #4000 lb weights. It would be interesting to know what the= stall speed is at #4600 lbs.?

Keep the Mach Up,
Jim Hergert=
N6XE, "An Sex Y" L4P



When I first researched IV-P, in the early 90's, the gross weight according=20= to=A0the factory was 3000 lb, then a few years later, listed at 3200 lb.=A0=20= This was the weight we used when we had our plane's final inspection.=A0 I n= ow note on the Lancair Website that the maximum gross for the IV-P is listed= as 3550 lb.=A0It is also my understanding in talking to other builders that= it is possible for a builder to certify a higher gross simply by flying the= plane with greater weights and re-doing=A0stall speeds. =A0My questions to= =A0ask the opinion of the LML group=A0are as follows:=A0
=A0
1.=A0 Does the 3550 lb gross= weight apply to all IV-P's or just to the turbine IV-P's?
2.=A0 Have any builders alre= ady increased the maximum gross of their plane, and if so, what procedures d= id you follow to make it legal?
3.=A0 I have heard builders=20= express confidence that the IV-PT can handle=A0a max weight of 4000 pounds,=20= has anyone flown their plane with that much weight?
=A0
Gerry Leinweber, C-GLFP
150+ hours and climbing







 --part1_1e2.fa2b960.2c8fa0e1_boundary--