Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:36:30 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.188] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b7) with ESMTP id 2404044 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 15:27:20 -0400 Received: from lsanca1-ar17-4-61-195-243.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net ([4.61.195.243] helo=skipslater) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19O0OJ-0002z1-00 for lml@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:27:16 -0700 X-Original-Message-ID: <000701c32b98$71c587e0$0200000a@earthlink.net> Reply-To: "Skip Slater" From: "Skip Slater" X-Original-To: "Lancair Mailing List" References: Subject: Re: [LML] Re: Recent SC Crash X-Original-Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 12:27:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-ELNK-Trace: cbee950bdf563876c8ad50643b1069f8239a348a220c26094a8810bd8576e106e7163e3cfda2c6d2667c3043c0873f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Brent, Thanks for sharing what you've learned from this crash and Bravo for your advice in this situation to the readers of the LML. My first impression upon reading the preliminary report was to ask myself why anyone would allow ATC to deny them a deviation for weather, especially involving thunderstorms. I was awaiting confirmation that a penetration may have resulted from this, which your data seems to have confirmed. I've had this happen to me just once in my airline career on a summer afternoon when a controller at New York Center refused my request for a weather deviation shortly after departing Newark. I'm sure he was trying to heep me from entering an arrival corridor, but short of doing a 180 degree turn, there was nowhere else to go. I insisted upon an immediate turn, which he again denied. I then TOLD him my new heading, whereupon he ordered me back on course. I told him that if necessary, I was declaring an emergency and the next thing I heard was the voice of a different controller (undoubtedly a supervisor) telling me to maintain my new heading and advise when clear of weather. The first guy had been relieved of his station. Any controller who attempts to force you to maintain your course into what you perceive as a bad situation is way out of line. Either they give you what you ask for, give you a viable altervative or you MUST take matters into your own hands under the emergency authority you have as pilot in command and do whatever is necessary to ensure the safety of your plane and passengers. As strong as Lancairs are, they're no match for mother nature. As the details of this accident emerge, graphically illustrated by the data extracted from the IDU in this airplane, the tremendous forces of a thunderstorm will become ever more evident. Give them a very wide berth. Skip Slater N540ES