Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> (Marvin Kaye)
To: lml
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:39:24 -0500
Message-ID: <redirect-1861846@logan.com>
From: "Bill & Sue" <harrelson@erols.com>
References: <list-1861680@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [LML] Paper Maps Anyone?
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Hi Larry,

The requirements for a civil ramp check are simple.

1. Upon request, you must show (not surrender) your pilot license and
medical to the fed doing the ramp check.

 2. There is no 2.   1 is it. You don't have to show them your charts. You
don't have to let them inside your airplane. You don't have to answer any
questions they ask. You have to produce logbooks (airplane and/or pilot)
upon reasonable request (generally considered 10 days).

When you're at work, it's a different story, they have a LOT more clout
where public conveyance is concerned, but for a part 91 operation the
license and medical are it. Now that I've said that, I certainly don't
recommend being rude to the inspector. I, like you, have had tons of checks
with the feds working at American. Most of these guys are perfectly ok. The
assholes are very rare.

I've had 3 part 91 ramp checks in little airplanes in 37 years of flying.
Just like at work, most of these guys are great. Most even LIKE little
airplanes and some actually fly themselves. I cooperate with these guys and
try to help them do their job. I have had one asshole inspector. He got the
license and medical and nothing else. He yelled , screamed and threatened
but there was nothing he could do (extremely few people know this). I
checked the report in my file later and all it said was "airman
uncooperative".  Basically, they are trained to ask for incriminating
evidence. If you voluntarily give it to them, they will use it against you.

As far as the charts, there is nothing in part 91 that SPECIFICALLY
addresses charts. What they will get you with is the requirement that you
familiarize yourself with "ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION"  concerning the
flight. Current charts help to fulfil this requirement. Of course, if you
fail the "all available info" test, they will probably consider that to be
careless and reckless also. The best thing would probably be to not show
them out of date charts.

Well if this doesn't stir up the pot, I don't know what will.

Bill
harrelson@erols.com
N5ZQ  LNC2  O-320  VA42  Fredericksburg, VA