From: "Marvin Kaye" <marv@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [LML] Stall recovery and spin avoidance
To: lml
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:22:23 -0400
Message-ID: <web-1602596@logan.com>
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Posted for "JJ JOHNSON" <JJJOHNSON@ACCESSCOMM.CA>:

Paul,
      I'd like to carify something that I noticed now that I've read your
reply. [For everyone else on the list I was the person who was the off  list
mailer] When i stated using corrdinated Rudder and Aileron I was under the
impression that the a/c was not stalled. In a stalled condition I TOTALLY
agree w/ you in stateing that rudder and rudder only should be used. After
going back and re-reading your post I can explain what i was asking you
about. Say for example you take your a/c [ a Decathlon or whatever] and put
it into a spin to the right..  Obviously you'd need left rudder to un-yaw
the a/c so now both wings are flying.. but.... [for example] your in a 60deg
right bank, 60 deg nose down... do you at this point use rudder or rudder
and ailerons to first roll the a/c level and then pull from the ensueing
dive. That was what I was meaning when i stated that I was trained to use
both the rudder and ailerons. If in that particular situation, you used only
rudder[ left rudder in this case] to level the a/c there is a large chance
you could restall the a/c and enter a spin to the left because you would be
skidding the a/c while you tried to raise that low wing..

I hope I've explained why i said what I did, and didn't cloud the issue
more. I'm not going to claim to be an expert at flying a/c in every form
shape or size, but I have a fair amount of  hrs flying where all i did was
spins and stalls etc. One good exersize i found to be an eye opener is to
take the a/c to  fairly high altitude and stall it..[ do this in a certifed
spin able a/c ONLY] but don't recover immediatly..  stall the a/c and then
keep it stalled.. and keep the wings level w/ rudder..  and keep it from
spinning.. it may sound easy.. but do it for 500-1000' it teaches a person
to get a good feel for how the a/c will behave when your in that flight
config. Most ppl trained in spinnig and stalls...  never get the really
feeling for when/how  an a/c is going to stall/spin.. they all expect it..
because they kick the rudder to start the spin..  but by maintaining a
stalled condition.. you have more time to get the feel for when the a/c is
in fact going to spin on its own.  Again.. I don't recomment this to someone
who isn't spin profficent..

I'm sure that some people will flame me for writting this because they feel
its dangerous. If you do feel this way.. don't do it.. I did it because i
wanted to be a better pilot in all flight configs.. it's helped my
landings.. its helped when i've slowed the a/c for sight seeing and want to
fly at min speed..  because i flew that a/c in this config for 30seconds to
as much as a minute at one time.[many times over].  not 2-5 seconds at a
time.  I did this for the same reason I took a defensive driving course in
my car..  I wanted to know that i could be in control even when i started to
drift on corners.. I've never experianced those situations on normal
highways.. but still someday I may.. And if i practice my skidds every once
in a while.. is should be proficient at that as well.

Sorry this got so long guys..

Jarrett Johnson