Return-Path: Sender: (Marvin Kaye) To: lml Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 15:01:00 -0400 Message-ID: X-Original-Return-Path: Received: from [65.66.11.38] (HELO qbert.gami.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.0b1) with ESMTP id 1235595 for lml@lancaironline.net; Sun, 12 May 2002 12:52:45 -0400 Received: by QBERT with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Sun, 12 May 2002 12:07:32 -0500 X-Original-Message-ID: <52548863F8A5D411B530005004759A931C26A2@QBERT> From: George Braly X-Original-To: "'lml@lancaironline.net'" Subject: RE: [LML] Auto fuel in Lancair IV X-Original-Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 12:07:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Fred, >>Hence the recent EAA initiative to breathe life into a 91-96 unleaded avgas proposal.<< Ah... Fred let me please, set the record straight on that. I was **** NOT **** REPEAT **** NOT **** an EAA initiative. The recent re-activation of the old ASTM 91/98 (sometimes called 91/96) specification was done at the specific request of GAMI. At GAMI's request EAA supported the effort. If they had opposed it, it probably would not have happened. With their support it did happen. But the idea to do it and the initiative to get it done came from our certification effort on PRISM. I thank EAA for the time and effort they did devote to helping to get that done. I hope it doesn't backfire on all of us. Here is the history on that: Some 30 months ago, GAMI went to FAA and said we want to certify our new ignition system on unleaded fuel. We want to use a straight 100LL fuel, but without the lead package as our "defined" or "specified" fuel for certification. The FAA said, "...NO" you *CAN NOT* do that under the regs... you have to have an officially recognized (by ASTM) fuel spec. (And, never mind that that statement turned out not to be correct information from the highest levels of the FAA...) So we asked ASTM to make an alternative to the 100LL spec, called 100LL- WTL - - without the lead. ASTM said that will take six years, but, have we got a deal for you, we can reactivate the old 91/98 specification, and that will only take 18 months. We said, fine, lets do it. And, so, a few months, back, they finally got it done. [ As an aside: You might like to know that, last Wednesday morning, some of the policy folks (as distinguished from the writers for the magazine) from AOPA were in Ada, and watched PRISM run the TIO-540 J2BD to 353 Hp, on 91/96UL (91/98) with the CHTs all above 460F and the hottest CHT at, exactly 500F. Free of detonation.] All that said, what we really need is a good 95octane unleaded avgas. And guess what? Chevron makes such a fuel, right now. Today. In fact, you have probably already run some of through your tanks... well sort of. Every time you buy a gallon of 100LL from Chevron that came out of its Mississippi refinery, you get a fuel that, routinely, without the lead, will have 95 to 97 octane. There is no magic to this. No special additives. Just good practices and management in the refinery, which is, by all accounts, one of the better operated and managed refineries around the country. >>The refineries can make this, and to aviation specifications. It is usable in about 90% of the piston engine fleet.<< No... not really, and it is worse than that. Remember, 70% of the fleet burns 30% of the fuel. 30% of the fleet burns 70% of the fuel. The 30% of the fleet that burns the majority of the fuel includes a lot of the aircraft that CAN NOT live on 91/96 without hardware changes. If you want to see avgas fuel prices skyrocket, just ground the 30% of the fleet that uses 70% of the fuel. The remaining market will be so small that it will not be worth pursuing by the refiners. My estimation is that about 40 to 50% of the fuel burned is burned in engines that cannot, unmodified, operate on 91/96. Derating is not an option, as it would ground all of the twin engine fleet (single engine rate of climb, issues). >>The engine manufacturers are probably praying for a FADEC breakthrough to control detonation. I wouldn't hold my breath for such a breakthrough to occur. But George seems to be on the right track with his research.<< Ah.. Fred... you are invited to come by Ada. This is no longer "if it works research". We have done the research. It works. See the comments in brackets [ above ]. At this point, we are furiously working on packaging this whole thing to get it ready for market. >>To me, a world of lower octane fuels means a requirement for much lower cylinder head temperatures (20F decrease in CHT is roughly equal to 1 octane number reduction) which means liquid cooled engines.<< It cannot be done (economically) and retrofitted on the certified airframes, so that is a non starter as a solution. Have you seen the price of the liquid cooled option for the twin Cessna? And, further, just because the coolant temperature is 190F or 240F, doesn't mean that the cylinder head temperatures are also 190F or 240F. Regards, George