Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b6) with ESMTP id 245355 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:03:23 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i6702nPg025445 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 20:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01c463b5$c3915ad0$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Second stock turbo bites the dust Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 20:02:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01C46394.3C205CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C46394.3C205CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I think you will generally find with the rotary that adding more = mixture (richen the mixture) will almost always result in more power and = higher rpms (up to a point). At any rpm appreciable off idle adding = fuel (enriching the mixture) will increase rpm while leaning it will = decrease rpm. While its true that at or near idle you can add fuel to = the point of causing the engine to slow down because there is so little = airflow, once you are operating above 3500 rpm, its difficult to enrich = the mixture enough to make the engine slow down (overly rich). The = rotary can flow through a amazing amount of fuel without flooding (even = though it will stop increasing rpm after a certain point where you are = burning all the oxygen you are taking in). Generally the EGT will get = lower, but I have seen 20 Gallon/hour on a cold morning and no = indication that the rotary was loading up at all. In fact, when I fly formation my fine adjustment for airspeed is not the = throttle but the mixture control knob. Increase mixture airplane speeds = up, decrease mixture and airplane slows down. ED =20 Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 5:54 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Second stock turbo bites the dust John, This certainly isn't good news. I haven't had any trouble YET, but it = would appear that perhaps my days are numbered. I haven't been hitting = the turbo too much in cruise, and just 5 lbs on take off and climb. = That's probably why mine is OK so far. =20 =20 I found it very interesting that turning the mixture more rich = increased your RPMs. I would have expected the exact opposite with the = lower amount of intake air. I would have thought that you would have to = lean it out to increase the power. Maybe the wheel was obstructing the = exhaust or something. =20 It certainly doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. =20 Steve Brooks (Rusty - where did you buy your muffler ?) =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On = Behalf Of John Slade Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Second stock turbo bites the dust =20 Steve, Dave and anyone else running a stock single stage turbo - you = might want to pay attention.... =20 This morning I managed to break Rusty's turbo. I had been cruising at = 11,000 ft with MAP 38, rpm 5100 and 175 kts TAS (about 155 IAS) for = almost 2 hours when rpm suddenly dropped to 2500. A 1/4 turn of the = mixture toward rich brought it up to 3500. Fuel pressure was 40psi, but = I turned on the other pump anyway. Coolant temp dropped from 185 to 150 = and EGT dropped from 1400 to 1000. Oil pressure was constant at 90PSI.=20 =20 I was 38 miles from home over a desolate little strip by Lake = Okeechobee. I figured I could glide to either field from halfway, so I = headed home. The engine ran consistently at reduced power. I maintained = 11,000 to the halfway point, then began a gradual decent to arrive over = the field at 6000. Once assured of the field I tried killing alternate = sets of coils - both gave a decrease in rpm - and alternate sets of = injectors - both killed the engine, (or reduced rpm enough that I didn't = want to know). =20 One [more] high & fast precautionary landing later and the plane was = back in the hangar. I'd thought the new Radio Shack resistors on my = secondary injectors might have given out, but no. A quick look up the = exhaust pipe told the story. The compressor wheel is sitting at an odd = angle blocking the outlet, just like last time. Apparently I was = trailing a vortex of black smoke as I descended into the pattern. This = probably helped keep the spam cans and whirly birds at bay while I took = the active. :)=20 =20 One failure might be a bad turbo. A second one is enough to prove to = me that the stock turbo just can't handle the punishment of continual = boost. (just like Ed said it wouldn't :) =20 I thought you guys running or planning to run the same turbo might = like to hear the story as soon as possible.=20 Regards, John (boost for all you're worth) Slade =20 Now where's the phone number of that Ozzie guy???? =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On = Behalf Of Alex Madsen Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) No they use solid state. I think it is 2GB Compact Flash. It says = somewhere on their web site. You can get 2 GB CF cards and IDE adapters = for them. =20 Alex Madsen =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Finn Lassen Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:27 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) =20 Hmmm.... Doesn't the Blue Mountain and other glass panels use = harddrives?=20 I thought that the inside of a harddrive was sealed. Picking a random drive on Seagate's website: Environmental=20 Operating Temperature (=B0C) 0 to 60 Nonoperating Temperature (=B0C) 70 to -40 Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 63 Non Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 350 Acoustics,Idle (Bels-typ sound power) 2.2 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 No mention of ambient pressure. Finn Ed Anderson wrote: Boy, now here is an example of what kind of information we have access = to onthis list. Now that Ernest mentions it, yeah, I recall that the = heads ofthe hard disk float on a cushion of air - but, I would never = have thought toassociate altitude with hard drive crashes! Thanks = Ernest. Ed Ed AndersonRV-6A N494BW Rotary PoweredMatthews, NC----- = Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Christley" = To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:48 PMSubject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) Haywire wrote: Message = Today we flew for 6.3 hrs and everything was great again. Wecalibrated a = few items including the electronic governor for the IVO prop. What = a difference that makes. Also calibrated the PSS AOA and the Dynon = AOA and they each are phenomenal tools. The engine is running great = with nomajor issues at all. I do have a little tweaking to do on the low = MAP table, but nothing urgent. Then only problem that I had today = was that my Sony Vaio laptop doesn't seem to like high altitude. I = have a small Vaio and havebuilt a place for it to mount easily and use = it to display Jeppenson'sFlightMap in-flight GPS program. It works great = until 10,300' where it would then display the blue screen and then = reboot. After the 4th time it refused to reboot again so now I'm = forced to use the system recovery disc and wipe the disc clean. I = hate to think about all the files that I said I wouldback-up soon... = :-(. My old laptop still works fine(using it now) so maybe I'll = try it tomorrow. All hard drives have a spinning platter with a = read/write head riding acushion of air just above it. Go to 10,300' and = there isn't much of acushion left. The head will fall into the platter = turning at 7500 or10000 rpm. I think you'll be lucky if the drive ever = works again. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/"Ignorance is mankinds = normal state, alleviated by information and experience." = Veeduber Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ = Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html = Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C46394.3C205CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
 
    I think you will = generally find=20 with the rotary that adding more mixture (richen the mixture) will = almost always=20 result in more power and higher rpms (up to a point).  At any rpm=20 appreciable off idle adding fuel (enriching the mixture) will increase = rpm while=20 leaning it will decrease rpm.  While its true that at or near idle = you can=20 add fuel to the point of causing the engine to slow down because there = is so=20 little airflow, once you are operating above 3500 rpm, its difficult to = enrich=20 the mixture enough to make the engine slow down (overly rich).  The = rotary=20 can flow through a amazing amount of fuel without flooding (even though = it will=20 stop increasing rpm after a certain point where you are burning all the = oxygen=20 you are taking in).  Generally the EGT will get lower, but I have = seen 20=20 Gallon/hour on  a cold morning and no indication that the rotary = was=20 loading up at all.
 
In fact, when I fly formation my fine = adjustment=20 for airspeed is not the throttle but the mixture control knob.  = Increase=20 mixture airplane speeds up, decrease mixture and airplane slows=20 down.
 
ED
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve = Brooks
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 5:54=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Second = stock=20 turbo bites the dust

John,

This=20 certainly isn=92t good news.  = I=20 haven=92t had any trouble YET, but it would appear that perhaps my = days are=20 numbered.  I haven=92t = been hitting=20 the turbo too much in cruise, and just 5 lbs on take off and = climb.  That=92s probably why mine = is OK so=20 far.

 

 

I=20 found it very interesting that turning the mixture more rich increased = your=20 RPMs.  I would have = expected the=20 exact opposite with the lower amount of intake air.  I would have thought that = you would=20 have to lean it out to increase the power.  Maybe the wheel was = obstructing the=20 exhaust or something.

 

It=20 certainly doesn=92t give me a warm fuzzy=20 feeling.

 

Steve=20 Brooks (Rusty =96 where did you buy your muffler=20 ?)

 

 

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of John = Slade
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 1:27=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Second stock turbo bites the dust

 

Steve,=20 Dave and anyone else running a stock single stage turbo - you might = want to=20 pay attention....

 

This=20 morning I managed to break Rusty's turbo.  I had been cruising at = 11,000=20 ft with MAP 38, rpm 5100 and 175 kts TAS (about 155 IAS) for almost 2 = hours=20 when rpm suddenly dropped to 2500. A 1/4 turn of the mixture toward = rich=20 brought it up to 3500. Fuel pressure was 40psi, but I turned on the = other pump=20 anyway. Coolant temp dropped from 185 to 150 and EGT dropped from = 1400 to=20 1000. Oil pressure was constant at 90PSI.

 

I was 38=20 miles from home over a desolate little strip by Lake Okeechobee. I = figured I=20 could glide to either field from halfway, so I headed home. The engine = ran=20 consistently at reduced power. I maintained 11,000 to the halfway = point, then=20 began a gradual decent to arrive over the field at 6000. Once assured = of the=20 field I tried killing alternate sets of coils - both gave a decrease = in rpm -=20 and alternate sets of injectors - both killed the engine, (or reduced = rpm=20 enough that I didn't want to know).

 

One=20 [more] high & fast precautionary landing later and the plane = was back=20 in the hangar. I'd thought the new Radio Shack resistors on my = secondary=20 injectors might have given out, but no. A quick look up the exhaust = pipe told=20 the story. The compressor wheel is sitting at an odd angle blocking = the=20 outlet, just like last time. Apparently I was trailing a vortex of = black smoke=20 as I descended into the pattern. This probably helped keep the = spam cans=20 and whirly birds at bay while I took the active. :) =

 

One=20 failure might be a bad turbo. A second one is enough to prove to me = that the=20 stock turbo just can't handle the punishment of continual boost. (just = like Ed=20 said it wouldn't :)

 

I=20 thought you guys running or planning to run the same turbo might like = to hear=20 the story as soon as possible.

Regards,

John=20 (boost for all you're worth) Slade

 

Now=20 where's the phone number of that Ozzie guy????

 

 

 

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Alex = Madsen
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 10:15=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Into the blue again :-)

No they use = solid=20 state. I think it is 2GB Compact Flash. =20 It says somewhere on their web site. You can get 2 GB CF cards = and IDE=20 adapters for them.

 

Alex=20 Madsen

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Finn = Lassen
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 7:27=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Into the blue again :-)

 

Hmmm.... Doesn't the Blue Mountain and other = glass=20 panels use harddrives?
I thought that the inside of a harddrive = was=20 sealed.
Picking a random drive on Seagate's = website:

Environmental=20
Operating Temperature (=B0C) 0 to 60
Nonoperating Temperature = (=B0C) 70 to=20 -40
Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 63
Non Operating Shock (Gs) @ = 2 msec=20 350
Acoustics,Idle (Bels-typ sound power)=20 2.2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


No=20 mention of ambient pressure.

Finn

Ed Anderson wrote:

Boy, now here is an example of =
what kind of information we have access to =
on
this =
list.  Now that Ernest =
mentions it, yeah, I recall that the heads =
of
the hard =
disk float on a cushion of air - but, I would never have thought =
to
associate =
altitude with hard drive crashes!  Thanks Ernest.
 
Ed
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary =
Powered
Matthews, =
NC
----- =
Original Message ----- 
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: "Rotary =
motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.n=
et>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:48 =
PM
Subject: =
[FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again =
:-)
 
 
  =

Haywire =
wrote:
    
Message    Today we flew for 6.3 hrs and everything =
was great again. We
calibrated a few items including the =
electronic governor for the IVO
      =

prop.
  =

What a difference that makes. Also calibrated =
the PSS AOA and the Dynon
      =

AOA
  =

and they each are phenomenal tools. The engine =
is running great with no
major issues at all. I do have a little =
tweaking to do on the low MAP
      =

table,
  =

but nothing urgent. Then only problem that I =
had today was that my Sony
      =

Vaio
  =

laptop doesn't seem to like high altitude. I =
have a small Vaio and have
built a place for it to mount easily and use =
it to display Jeppenson's
FlightMap in-flight GPS program. It works =
great until 10,300' where it
      =

would
  =

then display the blue screen and then reboot. =
After the 4th time it
      =

refused
  =

to reboot again so now I'm forced to use the =
system recovery disc and
      =

wipe
  =

the disc clean. I hate to think about all the =
files that I said I would
back-up soon... :-(. My old laptop still works =
fine(using it now) so
      =

maybe
  =

I'll try it =
tomorrow.
      =

All hard drives have a spinning platter with a =
read/write head riding a
cushion of air just above it.  Go to 10,300' and there isn't =
much of a
cushion left.  The head will fall into the platter turning at 7500 =
or
10000 rpm.  I think you'll be lucky if the drive ever works =
again.
 
-- 
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/<=
/A>
"Ignorance is mankinds normal =
state,
   =
alleviated by information and =
experience."
           &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           =
Veeduber
 
    
 Homepage:  =
http://www.flyrotary.com/
 Archive:   http://lancai=
ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
<= PRE style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; = MARGIN-LEFT: 183.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1.5in; = PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; = mso-border-left-alt: solid blue 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in = 4.0pt">        = 
 
 
 
  =

 Homepage:  =
http://www.flyrotary.com/
 Archive:   http://lancai=
ronline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
<= PRE style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: = medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; = MARGIN-LEFT: 147.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; = PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; = mso-border-left-alt: solid blue 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in = 4.0pt">      = 
 
  =
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