Return-Path: Received: from [12.10.147.52] (HELO utmcmail.utmc.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b6) with ESMTP id 245269 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:30:01 -0400 Received: from mcwolf.utmc.utc.com ([10.1.1.1]) by utmcmail.utmc.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:22:19 -0600 Received: from pony.utmc.utc.com(172.24.100.19) by mcwolf.utmc.utc.com via csmap id 60f3c8ba_cf9c_11d8_9b18_003048116499_24646; Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by pony.utmc.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:29:33 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Schemmel, Grant" To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Second stock turbo bites the dust Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:29:27 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C463A8.B2D0CB20" Return-Path: Grant.Schemmel@Aeroflex.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jul 2004 22:22:19.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[B3795CA0:01C463A7] This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C463A8.B2D0CB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Here's some info I had saved from last year regarding Greg Richter/Chrissi's turbo selection process. Grant Schemmel > We have narrowed the turbo selection down to the Garrett GT35 84 trim 0.94 > A/R and GT37 82mm, 52 trim, 0.54 A/R or GT37-TO4 housing 76mm, 52 trim, 0.70 > A/R as being the closest to the TO4e-50-P trim. > The Draw of the GT35 is it is a bolt-on with a TO4 manifold footprint. > The GT37 with TO4 housing is ambiguous as to whether the housing is the > turbine or compressor section therefore the footprint is in question. > I think the GT37 units are much closer to getting centered on the turbine > maps based on what we are guessing so far about performance (Cliff Manzke's > numbers) > > The GT series is Garretts answer to the new performance market. They are all > ball bearing. Not sure if all turbine wheels in series are inconel or if that > is option. > My thoughts are this, although Greg's "no wastegate" approach worked for him, > if instead you go the wastegate route and use an adjustable boost controller, > although more expensive and complex to install, it adds an extra margine of > safety to the system and at critical times may be one less thing to monitor > and control. Going without means settling for "best guess" and I'm just not > one who is comfortable with that ambiguity. > Any thoughts, ideas, criticisms or advice? > ...Chrissi -----Original Message----- From: Steve Brooks [mailto:steve@tsisp.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 3:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Second stock turbo bites the dust I know that he had a Turbonetics turbo charger, but I don't know what model/ Steve Brooks . I never hear it Richard? from Blue Mountain Instruments? ever had any trouble with this turbo unit. I forget which one it was, but it was not the stock Mazda. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: John Slade To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Second stock turbo bites the dust Steve, Dave and anyone else running a stock single stage turbo - you might want to pay attention.... This morning I managed to break Rusty's turbo. I had been cruising at 11,000 ft with MAP 38, rpm 5100 and 175 kts TAS (about 155 IAS) for almost 2 hours when rpm suddenly dropped to 2500. A 1/4 turn of the mixture toward rich brought it up to 3500. Fuel pressure was 40psi, but I turned on the other pump anyway. Coolant temp dropped from 185 to 150 and EGT dropped from 1400 to 1000. Oil pressure was constant at 90PSI. I was 38 miles from home over a desolate little strip by Lake Okeechobee. I figured I could glide to either field from halfway, so I headed home. The engine ran consistently at reduced power. I maintained 11,000 to the halfway point, then began a gradual decent to arrive over the field at 6000. Once assured of the field I tried killing alternate sets of coils - both gave a decrease in rpm - and alternate sets of injectors - both killed the engine, (or reduced rpm enough that I didn't want to know). One [more] high & fast precautionary landing later and the plane was back in the hangar. I'd thought the new Radio Shack resistors on my secondary injectors might have given out, but no. A quick look up the exhaust pipe told the story. The compressor wheel is sitting at an odd angle blocking the outlet, just like last time. Apparently I was trailing a vortex of black smoke as I descended into the pattern. This probably helped keep the spam cans and whirly birds at bay while I took the active. :) One failure might be a bad turbo. A second one is enough to prove to me that the stock turbo just can't handle the punishment of continual boost. (just like Ed said it wouldn't :) I thought you guys running or planning to run the same turbo might like to hear the story as soon as possible. Regards, John (boost for all you're worth) Slade Now where's the phone number of that Ozzie guy???? -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Alex Madsen Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) No they use solid state. I think it is 2GB Compact Flash. It says somewhere on their web site. You can get 2 GB CF cards and IDE adapters for them. Alex Madsen -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Finn Lassen Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 7:27 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) Hmmm.... Doesn't the Blue Mountain and other glass panels use harddrives? I thought that the inside of a harddrive was sealed. Picking a random drive on Seagate's website: Environmental Operating Temperature (°C) 0 to 60 Nonoperating Temperature (°C) 70 to -40 Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 63 Non Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 350 Acoustics,Idle (Bels-typ sound power) 2.2 No mention of ambient pressure. Finn Ed Anderson wrote: Boy, now here is an example of what kind of information we have access to on this list. Now that Ernest mentions it, yeah, I recall that the heads of the hard disk float on a cushion of air - but, I would never have thought to associate altitude with hard drive crashes! Thanks Ernest. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Christley" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:48 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again :-) Haywire wrote: Message Today we flew for 6.3 hrs and everything was great again. We calibrated a few items including the electronic governor for the IVO prop. What a difference that makes. Also calibrated the PSS AOA and the Dynon AOA and they each are phenomenal tools. The engine is running great with no major issues at all. I do have a little tweaking to do on the low MAP table, but nothing urgent. Then only problem that I had today was that my Sony Vaio laptop doesn't seem to like high altitude. I have a small Vaio and have built a place for it to mount easily and use it to display Jeppenson's FlightMap in-flight GPS program. It works great until 10,300' where it would then display the blue screen and then reboot. After the 4th time it refused to reboot again so now I'm forced to use the system recovery disc and wipe the disc clean. I hate to think about all the files that I said I would back-up soon... :-(. My old laptop still works fine(using it now) so maybe I'll try it tomorrow. All hard drives have a spinning platter with a read/write head riding a cushion of air just above it. Go to 10,300' and there isn't much of a cushion left. The head will fall into the platter turning at 7500 or 10000 rpm. I think you'll be lucky if the drive ever works again. -- http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/ "Ignorance is mankinds normal state, alleviated by information and experience." Veeduber Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C463A8.B2D0CB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's=20 some info I had saved from last year regarding Greg Richter/Chrissi's = turbo=20 selection process.
 
Grant=20 Schemmel
 

> We have narrowed the turbo selection down to the Garrett GT35 = 84 trim=20 0.94

> A/R and GT37 82mm, 52 trim, 0.54 A/R or GT37-TO4 housing 76mm, = 52 trim,=20 0.70

> A/R as being the closest to the TO4e-50-P trim.

> The Draw of the GT35 is it is a bolt-on with a TO4 manifold=20 footprint.

> The GT37 with TO4 housing is ambiguous as to whether the = housing is=20 the

> turbine or compressor section therefore the footprint is in=20 question.

> I think the GT37 units are much closer to getting centered on = the=20 turbine

> maps based on what we are guessing so far about performance = (Cliff=20 Manzke's

> numbers)

>

> The GT series is Garretts answer to the new performance market. = They are=20 all

> ball bearing. Not sure if all turbine wheels in series are = inconel or if=20 that

> is option.

> My thoughts are this, although Greg's "no wastegate" approach = worked for=20 him,

> if instead you go the wastegate route and use an adjustable = boost=20 controller,

> although more expensive and complex to install, it adds an = extra margine=20 of

> safety to the system and at critical times may be one less = thing to=20 monitor

> and control. Going without means settling for "best guess" and = I'm just=20 not

> one who is comfortable with that ambiguity.

> Any thoughts, ideas, criticisms or advice?

> ...Chrissi

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Brooks=20 [mailto:steve@tsisp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 3:59=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Second stock turbo bites the dust

I know that=20 he had a Turbonetics turbo charger, but I don't know what=20 model/

Steve=20 Brooks

 

<snip>

.

 

I never = hear it=20 Richard? from Blue Mountain Instruments? ever had any trouble = with this=20 turbo unit.  I forget which one it was, but it was not the stock = Mazda.

 

Ed

 

Ed = Anderson
RV-6A N494BW=20 Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: John Slade=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: Tuesday,=20 July 06, 2004 1:26 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Second stock turbo bites the dust

 

Steve, Dave = and anyone=20 else running a stock single stage turbo - you might want to pay=20 attention....

 

This = morning I=20 managed to break Rusty's turbo.  I had been cruising at 11,000 = ft with=20 MAP 38, rpm 5100 and 175 kts TAS (about 155 IAS) for almost 2 hours = when rpm=20 suddenly dropped to 2500. A 1/4 turn of the mixture toward rich = brought it up=20 to 3500. Fuel pressure was 40psi, but I turned on the other pump = anyway.=20 Coolant temp dropped from 185 to 150 and EGT dropped from 1400 = to 1000.=20 Oil pressure was constant at 90PSI.

 

I was 38 = miles from=20 home over a desolate little strip by Lake Okeechobee. I figured I = could glide=20 to either field from halfway, so I headed home. The engine ran = consistently at=20 reduced power. I maintained 11,000 to the halfway point, then began a = gradual=20 decent to arrive over the field at 6000. Once assured of the field I = tried=20 killing alternate sets of coils - both gave a decrease in rpm - and = alternate=20 sets of injectors - both killed the engine, (or reduced rpm enough = that I=20 didn't want to know).

 

One [more] = high &=20 fast precautionary landing later and the plane was back in the = hangar.=20 I'd thought the new Radio Shack resistors on my secondary injectors = might have=20 given out, but no. A quick look up the exhaust pipe told the story. = The=20 compressor wheel is sitting at an odd angle blocking the outlet, just = like=20 last time. Apparently I was trailing a vortex of black smoke as I = descended=20 into the pattern. This probably helped keep the spam cans and = whirly=20 birds at bay while I took the active. :)

 

One = failure might be=20 a bad turbo. A second one is enough to prove to me that the stock = turbo just=20 can't handle the punishment of continual boost. (just like Ed said it = wouldn't=20 :)

 

I thought = you guys=20 running or planning to run the same turbo might like to hear the = story as soon=20 as possible.

Regards,

John = (boost for all=20 you're worth) Slade

 

Now = where's the phone=20 number of that Ozzie guy????

 

 

 

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Alex = Madsen
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 10:15=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Into the blue again :-)

No they = use solid=20 state. I think it is 2GB Compact Flash. =20 It says somewhere on their web site. You can get 2 GB CF cards = and IDE=20 adapters for them.

 

Alex=20 Madsen

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Finn = Lassen
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 = 7:27=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Into the blue again :-)

 

Hmmm.... Doesn't the Blue Mountain and = other glass=20 panels use harddrives?
I thought that the inside of a harddrive = was=20 sealed.
Picking a random drive on Seagate's = website:

Environmental=20
Operating Temperature (=B0C) 0 to 60
Nonoperating Temperature = (=B0C) 70 to=20 -40
Operating Shock (Gs) @ 2 msec 63
Non Operating Shock (Gs) @ = 2 msec=20 350
Acoustics,Idle (Bels-typ sound power)=20 2.2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


No=20 mention of ambient pressure.

Finn

Ed Anderson wrote:

Boy, now here is an example of =
what kind of information we have access to =
on
this list.  Now =
that Ernest mentions it, yeah, I recall that the heads =
of
the hard disk float on a cushion of air - but, I would never have =
thought to
associate altitude with hard drive =
crashes!  Thanks =
Ernest.
 
Ed
 
 
Ed =
Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary =
Powered
Matthews, =
NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ernest Christley" <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.=
net>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 5:48 =
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Into the blue again =
:-)
 
 
  
Haywire =
wrote:
    
Message    Today we flew for =
6.3 hrs and everything was great again. =
We
calibrated a few items including the =
electronic governor for the IVO
      =

prop.
  =

What a difference that makes. =
Also calibrated the PSS AOA and the =
Dynon
      =

AOA
  =

and they each are phenomenal =
tools. The engine is running great with =
no
major =
issues at all. I do have a little tweaking to do on the low =
MAP
      =

table,
  =

but nothing urgent. Then only =
problem that I had today was that my =
Sony
      =

Vaio
  =

laptop doesn't seem to like =
high altitude. I have a small Vaio and =
have
built a place for it to mount easily and use =
it to display Jeppenson's
FlightMap in-flight GPS program. It works =
great until 10,300' where it
      =

would
  =

then display the blue screen =
and then reboot. After the 4th time =
it
      =

refused
  =

to reboot again so now I'm =
forced to use the system recovery disc =
and
      =

wipe
  =

the disc clean. I hate to =
think about all the files that I said I =
would
back-up soon... :-(. My old laptop still =
works fine(using it now) so
      =

maybe
  =

I'll try it =
tomorrow.
      =

All hard =
drives have a spinning platter with a read/write head riding =
a
cushion of air just above it.  Go to 10,300' and there isn't =
much of a
cushion left.  The head will fall into the platter turning at 7500 =
or
10000 rpm.  I think you'll be lucky if the drive ever works =
again.
 
-- =

http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/=

"Ignorance is mankinds normal =
state,
   alleviated by information and =
experience."
           &=
nbsp;           &=
nbsp;           =
Veeduber
 
    
 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
 Archive:   http://lanca=
ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
        =


  
 
 
 
  =


  
 Homepage:  =
http://www.flyrotary.com/
 Archive:   http://lanca=
ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
      =


  
 
  =
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