Return-Path: Received: from envelope.rose-hulman.edu ([137.112.8.21] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b6) with ESMTP-TLS id 243890 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:25:11 -0400 Received: from bob (c-24-8-167-234.client.comcast.net [24.8.167.234]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by envelope.rose-hulman.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i65KObl11881 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128 bits) verified NO) for ; Mon, 5 Jul 2004 15:24:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Alex Madsen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Carbon Fiber P-Port manifold update Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 02:24:25 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c4632a$4576db10$6401a8c0@bob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C46300.5CA0D310" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C46300.5CA0D310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry Good to hear you are making progress on the TB. I went back and check my drawings. I used a 1.75" ID (is this correct?) which tapers to a 2" at the plenum. I think I will reduce or eliminate the taper because it was a little hard to get the CF on the foam form and to allow placement of the fuel injector boss anywhere on the runner. Alex -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Hey Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Carbon Fiber P-Port manifold update On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 01:51 PM, Alex Madsen wrote: I have been doing a lot of drawing this weekend for my manifold design. I have been mainly working on a P-port design because it is the least complicated and has a large (relatively :) market potential. There was concern that I had fuel injectors on the hot side of the engine on my last design. I think that my current design should address this concern while allowing those that want to experiment with fuel injector placement the ability to do so. Attached are picture of the design. The fuel injector can be conceivably placed at any location along the manifold runners. The drawing show a single injector boss however double injector bosses are possible. The fuel injector boss currently sits at a 45 degree angle to the runners. I plan to use high temperature flame retardant Garolite (fiberglass composite) for the injector boss. The injector bosses are attached to the CF runners with epoxy at the desired location. The epoxy will also fill in any gaps. The force trying to dislodge the injectors, even during a backfire is relatively small because of the small area of the injector hole that goes into the runner. Injectors are not attached to a fuel rail but rather an injector cap with NPT threads for an AN T fitting. This allows easy customer configuration of injector layout and eliminates the bulk and custom machining of a fuel rail (of course if you want to use fuel rails you could). The injector is retained by the clamping force of 2 bolts that run between the cap and boss. The manifold runners will likely 2" ID and made of 2 ply carbon fiber and high temperature epoxy. I have not yet determined what I will use for as a form for the CF. I am leaning towards wax but foam is also an option. The current length of the runners is 21.5" and 25.7" including Jerry's throttle body. The plenum can face forwards or backwards and has a volume of 1.2 L. I am not happy with the plenums shape and I will probably redesign it one of these days. As a side note to Jerry How goes development of your throttle body? Is there any chance of adding a flange to your TB? It would make attaching intake manifolds much easer. Alex Madsen Alex, the throttle bodies are done and awaiting installation which in turn is awaiting the completion of the exhaust system before I tear the engine down. The present throttle bodies will attache to the runners with hose and clamps. I will think about the flange. The runner/throttle body diameter is two inches O.D. not I.D. Assuming the fuel rail has to be straight (is this necessarily so?), then the injectors, two for each runner, have to be in the same plane and parallel to each other. That is a very nice drawing. Jerry Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C46300.5CA0D310 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jerry

Good to hear you are making = progress on the TB. I went back and check my drawings. I used a 1.75” ID (is = this correct?) which tapers to a 2” at the plenum. I think I will = reduce or eliminate the taper because it was a little hard to get the CF on the = foam form and to allow placement of the fuel injector boss anywhere on the runner. =

 Alex

=

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Hey
Sent: Monday, July 05, = 2004 6:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Carbon Fiber P-Port manifold update

 


On Monday, July 5, 2004, at 01:51 PM, Alex Madsen = wrote:

I have = been doing a lot of drawing this weekend for my manifold design. I have been mainly working on a P-port design because it is the least complicated and has a = large (relatively :) market potential.  

There was concern that I had fuel injectors on the hot side of the engine on my last design.  I think = that my current design should address this concern while allowing those that = want to experiment with fuel injector placement the ability to do so. Attached = are picture of the design. The fuel injector can be conceivably placed at = any location along the manifold runners. The drawing show a single injector = boss however double injector bosses are possible.  The fuel injector = boss currently sits at a 45 degree angle to the runners. I plan to use high = temperature flame retardant Garolite (fiberglass composite) for the injector boss. = The injector bosses are attached to the CF runners with epoxy at the desired location.  The epoxy will also fill in any gaps. The force trying = to dislodge the injectors, even during a backfire is relatively small = because of the small area of the injector hole that goes into the runner. Injectors = are not attached to a fuel rail but rather an injector cap with NPT threads = for an AN T fitting. This allows easy customer configuration of injector layout = and eliminates the bulk and custom machining of a fuel rail (of course if = you want to use fuel rails you could).    The injector is retained = by the clamping force of 2 bolts that run between the cap and boss.

 

The manifold runners will likely = 2” ID and made of 2 ply carbon fiber and high temperature epoxy. I have not = yet determined what I will use for as a form for the CF. I am leaning = towards wax but foam is also an option. The current length of the runners is = 21.5” and 25.7” including Jerry’s throttle body. The plenum can = face forwards or backwards and has a volume of 1.2 L. I am not happy with the plenums shape and I will probably redesign it one of these days.

 

As a side note to Jerry

How goes development of your = throttle body? Is there any chance of adding a flange to your TB?  It would = make attaching intake manifolds much easer.

 

Alex Madsen =


Alex, the throttle bodies are done and awaiting installation which in = turn is awaiting the completion of the exhaust system before I tear the engine = down. The present throttle bodies will attache to the runners with hose and = clamps. I will think about the flange. The runner/throttle body diameter is two = inches O.D. not I.D. Assuming the fuel rail has to be straight (is this = necessarily so?), then the injectors, two for each runner, have to be in the same plane = and parallel to each other. That is a very nice drawing. Jerry




<pp2 asm front.jpg><pp2 asm.jpg><injector assembly exp.jpg><injector assembly.jpg> Homepage: = http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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