Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b6) with ESMTP id 241921 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:23:15 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i63GMeNs026637 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01c46119$f91a3ee0$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Reality Check Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:22:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C460F8.71BEC4A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C460F8.71BEC4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave, you don't mention what your OAT was during your runs - it do make = a difference. Since I only have a 2300 ft runway, I've never tried runs = down 5000 ft and observed what the temps were. I do know that on a hot = day (90F+) I can see 210-220F on the coolant and 200F on the oil during = the climbout to pattern altitude. By the time my airspeed is up to = 120MPH IAS, the coolant and oil temps have started back down and = stabilize around 190 oil and 200F during the remainder of the climb to = 3000 MSL. After than the temps settle down to 170-180F during cruise on = a 90F+ day on the ground. I would be prepared on my first test flight to make pattern circuits. = By the second time around the pattern at reduce power, your temps should = be below 200F. My first flight only lasted 4 1/2 minutes (once around) = as my oil temp was over 240F by the time I reached 400 AGL.=20 So its difficult to say, they appear a bit on the warm side but a high = power high speed taxi means you are generating a lot of power while your = airspeed (for an appreciable portion of the run) is low, the worst = conditions to face. Once you get airborne, you generally reduce your = power (I wouldn't on my first flight until I had to) and you pick up = airspeed, both of course which help the cooling aspects. I don't see anything that would make me reconsider a first flight. I = would just have a contingency plan (or two) depending on cooling = conditions encountered after lift off. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: daveleonard@cox.net=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Reality Check Congrats, Todd, That must be a great feeling. I like running behind = the engine I rebuilt myself instead of the "new" engine I used to have. As I approach my first flight I need a reality check. Like Steve, I = am starting to worry about cooling. I did some high speed taxi testing = yesterday. Everything went very well but I am very impressed with how = quickly using high power will make the coolant temps go up. After 2 high speed runs down the 5000' runway everything seemed to be = heat soaked and up to steady state - oil 180, coolant 160. With only a = few seconds of high power needed to get me up to stall speed on my third = run, the coolant had heated up to 220 by the end of the runway, but = cooled back down to 180 on the taxi back. This seems somewhat in line with what others have reported as = successful, but I am afraid of what high power on climb-out is going to = do. Is there anyone who feels that this is probably not going to be good = enough? Thanks, Dave Leonard >=20 > Well after a little time out for an engine rebuild I finally got = back > into the air again. Tonight's flight was 1 hour and absolutely no = problems > at all. I wasn't planning on flying again until I installed my = transponder > due to an incredible amount of water bomber traffic at our strip, = but the > damned thing is still somewhere between Australia and here. They = were > extremely aggressive at attacking the fires so that when we had some > moderately heavy rain these last 2 days they gained complete control = and > this morning declared them 100% contained. So this evening was = eerily quite > up at the airport, just begging for me to go flying... so we did. > It sure was good to get back up there again. Tomorrow should be = more of > the same so I hope to get some good tests done and have more to = report. > S. Todd Bartrim > Turbo 13B RV-9Endurance > C-FSTB > http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm >=20 > "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe = in, > Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass". >=20 >=20 >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Well after a little time out for an engine rebuild I finally got = back into the air again. Tonight's flight was 1 hour and absolutely no = problems at all. I wasn't planning on flying again until I installed my = transponder due to an incredible amount of water bomber traffic at our = strip, but the damned thing is still somewhere between Australia and = here. They were extremely aggressive at attacking the fires so that when = we had some moderately heavy rain these last 2 days they gained complete = control and this morning declared them 100% contained. So this evening = was eerily quite up at the airport, just begging for me to go flying... = so we did. It sure was good to get back up there again. Tomorrow should be = more of the same so I hope to get some good tests done and have more to = report. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RV-9Endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe = in, Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C460F8.71BEC4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave, you don't mention what your OAT = was during=20 your runs - it do make a difference.  Since I only have a 2300 ft = runway,=20 I've never tried runs down 5000 ft and observed what the temps = were.  I do=20 know that on a hot day (90F+) I can  see 210-220F on the = coolant and=20 200F on the oil during the climbout to pattern altitude.  By the = time my=20 airspeed is up to 120MPH IAS, the coolant and oil temps have started = back down=20 and stabilize around 190 oil and 200F during the remainder of the climb = to 3000=20 MSL.  After than the temps settle down to 170-180F during cruise on = a 90F+=20 day on the ground.
 
I would be prepared on my first test = flight to make=20 pattern circuits.  By the second time around the pattern at reduce = power,=20 your temps should be below 200F.  My first flight only lasted 4 1/2 = minutes=20 (once around) as my oil temp was over 240F by the time I reached 400 = AGL.=20
 
So its difficult to say, they appear a = bit on the=20 warm side but a high power high speed taxi means you are generating a = lot of=20 power while your airspeed (for an appreciable portion of the run) is = low, the=20 worst conditions to face.  Once you get airborne, you generally = reduce your=20 power (I wouldn't on my first flight until I had to) and you pick up = airspeed,=20 both of course which help the cooling aspects.
 
I don't see anything that would make me = reconsider=20 a first flight.  I would just have a contingency plan (or two) = depending on=20 cooling conditions encountered after lift off.
 
Ed
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 daveleonard@cox.net
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 = 11:18=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Reality = Check

Congrats, Todd, That must be a great feeling.  I = like=20 running behind the engine I rebuilt myself instead of the "new" engine = I used=20 to have.

As I approach my first flight I need a reality = check. =20 Like Steve, I am starting to worry about cooling.  I did some = high speed=20 taxi testing yesterday.  Everything went very well but I am very=20 impressed with how quickly using high power will make the coolant = temps go=20 up.

After 2 high speed runs down the 5000' runway everything = seemed to=20 be heat soaked and up to steady state - oil 180, coolant 160.  = With only=20 a few seconds of high power needed to get me up to stall speed on my = third=20 run, the coolant had heated up to 220 by the end of the runway, but = cooled=20 back down to 180 on the taxi back.

This seems somewhat in line = with=20 what others have reported as successful, but I am afraid of what high = power on=20 climb-out is going to do.

Is there anyone who feels that this = is=20 probably not going to be good enough?

Thanks,
Dave=20 Leonard

>
>     Well after a = little time=20 out for an engine rebuild I finally got back
> into the air = again.=20 Tonight's flight was 1 hour and absolutely no problems
> at all. = I=20 wasn't planning on flying again until I installed my = transponder
> due=20 to an incredible amount of water bomber traffic at our strip, but = the
>=20 damned thing is still somewhere between Australia and here. They = were
>=20 extremely aggressive at attacking the fires so that when we had = some
>=20 moderately heavy rain these last 2 days they gained complete control=20 and
> this morning declared them 100% contained. So this evening = was=20 eerily quite
> up at the airport, just begging for me to go = flying... so=20 we did.
>     It sure was good to get back = up there=20 again. Tomorrow should be more of
> the same so I hope to get = some good=20 tests done and have more to report.
> S. Todd Bartrim
> = Turbo 13B=20 RV-9Endurance
> C-FSTB
>=20 http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>=20
>    "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently = desire,=20 Sincerely believe in,
> Enthusiastically act upon, Must = inevitably come=20 to pass".
>
>
>

   =20 Well after a little time out for an engine rebuild I finally got back = into the=20 air again. Tonight's flight was 1 hour and absolutely no problems at = all. I=20 wasn't planning on flying again until I installed my transponder due = to an=20 incredible amount of water bomber traffic at our strip, but the damned = thing=20 is still somewhere between Australia and here. They were extremely = aggressive=20 at attacking the fires so that when we had some moderately heavy rain = these=20 last 2 days they gained complete control and this morning declared = them 100%=20 contained. So this evening was eerily quite up at the airport, just = begging=20 for me to go flying... so we did.
    It sure was good to get back up there again. Tomorrow should = be more of=20 the same so I hope to get some good tests done and have more to=20 report.

S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B = RV-9Endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

=   =20 "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe in,=20 Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".

 

>>  Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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