Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.169.76] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b2) with ESMTP id 3185746 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:10:06 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 23:10:06 -0700 Received: from 4.171.174.233 by BAY3-DAV46.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:10:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.174.233] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: intake ideas? Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:10:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0011.2700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C428D8.15728450" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Apr 2004 06:10:06.0528 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FBF0400:01C428F9] ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C428D8.15728450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I expected this drop. For reasons of not wanting to enter a prolonged a= nd fruitless discussion on rotary engine manifold design, I will not expl= ain why this drop is desirable : ) Oh; come on =E2=80=93 gives us the 25 words or less version =E2=80=93 wel= l; maybe 50 words. We promise no prolonged and fruitless discussion. Al Damn, I'm such a sucker for that line. Most gear heads already understand that successful intake tuning is the a= rt and science of maximizing and managing the energy represented by the m= oving mass of air in the manifold as it accelerates and decelerates. But= , there are some less obvious subtleties at work in the Mazda rotary mani= fold. =20 I believe Mazda's intent on the 2nd gen NA rotary was to intentionally re= strict the flow on the primary ports so as to increase the velocity in th= e larger secondaries. This goal is also aided by opening the secondaries= a bit sooner than the primaries (gets the train moving early). Note tha= t porting (enlarging) the primaries or making the primary runners larger = may be counterproductive here so the time honored tradition of "bigger is= better" will lead you the wrong way. The resultant higher velocity in t= he secondary runners is then used to increase VE with the later closing s= econdary port. So why not close up the primaries completely and get even= higher velocity in the secondary? It's all about finding the point of = diminishing returns. Tracy (way past 50 word limit) Tracy's analysis sounds reasonable to me. Its clear that Mazda expected = some benefit in going to the trouble and expense of keeping the primary a= nd secondary runners and port timing different. I had wondered why they = would have the secondary port open before the primary port (6 port engine= ) and I think Tracy's hypothesis is probably correct - at least it makes = sense. =20 I ported both my primary and secondary to the same port timing and conclu= ded that since the ports now had the same timing that I could merge the s= econdary and primary ports with minimum adverse effect. My testing will = hopefully show that to be correct. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC There is a good chance your approach will work fine. Mazda's attempt at = this juggling act was flawed due to the horribly dirty path in the second= ary aux ports on the NA manifold & block. I think that is why my turbo = block (much cleaner ports) worked about as well as my earlier 6 port bloc= k, even though the later port timing on the 6 port is theoretically bette= r. =20 Tracy ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C428D8.15728450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

  

 I expected t= his drop.  For reasons of not wanting to enter a prolonged and = fruitless discussion on rotary engine manifold design, I will not explain= why this drop is desirable : )

Oh; come on =E2=80=93 gives us the 25 = words or less version =E2=80=93 well; maybe 50 words. We promise no prolo= nged and fruitless discussion.

Al

Damn, I'm such a sucker for that line.

Most gear head= s already understand that successful= intake tuning is the art and science of maximizing and managing the ener= gy represented by the moving mass of air in the manifold as it accelerate= s and decelerates.  But, there are some less obvious subtleties=  at work in the Mazda rotary manifold. 

I believe Mazda's inten= t on the 2nd gen NA rotary was to intentionally restrict the flow on= the primary ports so as to increase the velocity in the larger secondari= es.  This goal is also aided by opening the secondaries a bit sooner= than the primaries (gets the train moving early).  Note that portin= g (enlarging) the primaries or making the primary runners larger may=  be counterproductive here so the time honored tradition of "bigger = is better" will lead you the wrong way.  The resultant higher veloci= ty in the secondary runners is then used to increase VE wi= th the later closing secondary port.  So why not close up the primar= ies completely and get even higher velocity in the secondary?  = It's all about finding the point of diminishing returns.

Tracy  (way past 5= 0 word limit)

 

Tracy's analysis so= unds reasonable to me.  Its clear that Mazda expected some benefit i= n going to the trouble and expense of keeping the primary and secondary r= unners and port timing different.  I had wondered why they would hav= e the secondary port open before the primary port (6 port engine) and I t= hink Tracy's hypothesis is probably correct - at least it makes sense.&nb= sp;
 
I ported both my primary and secondary to the same port timi= ng and concluded that since the ports now had the same timing that I coul= d merge the secondary and primary ports with minimum adverse effect. = ; My testing will hopefully show that to be correct.
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
 
= There is a good chance your approach will work fine.  Mazda's attemp= t at this juggling act was flawed due to the horribly dirty path in the s= econdary aux ports on the NA manifold & block.   I think th= at is why my turbo block (much cleaner ports) worked about as well as&nbs= p;my earlier 6 port block, even though the later port timing on the = 6 port is theoretically better.   
 
Tracy
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