X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from pmg.Logan.com ([207.170.160.161] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 3703325 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:41:01 -0500 Received: from pmg.Logan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 268F1277E6 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:41:01 -0500 (EST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'stephen.izett@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=pmg.Logan.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="stephen.izett@gmail.com"; helo=mail-pl1-f181.google.com; client-ip=209.85.214.181 Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com (mail-pl1-f181.google.com [209.85.214.181]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 19:41:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2124ccf03edso13940285ad.2 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 16:41:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1732063254; x=1732668054; darn=lancaironline.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dx9F94DeukezmWzGGYTDgMBCKNP9mZxBa2q7Oq9iOUk=; b=UGbUyadr80b5tIrh7CT0x16+ZEaMsx0uB/GmdEmvEcXfA6rjWXwWYM+A0W0QHrYasu jVug1VsgmCzuiM0gkIwSoWqO9vvuUI9lWg8QhyE73uI98vXe0l5zq2Z+DnTs2eX9kIN2 mrVy7rvAqJFswjNO6vLhmA76AaVBPqOSllddA9ED8DX8Bt9m+APRcIFkvT9QZM+lUF5M QnCpe1N9CJyOb/7jCRgIKpL4FlR5rZ48/DSjac9t/uETpnEG62DHJ6EQ6Imv/e4jD3Ou p1Bmu3mskHdbh8qKQ3vPL0rHtTTqgFu0hxpiprVUsjBOONHrwuReuuVq033nUF/aFsda 6ydw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1732063254; x=1732668054; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dx9F94DeukezmWzGGYTDgMBCKNP9mZxBa2q7Oq9iOUk=; b=PX/IBzm0/HOp/aHRMYrb3WddxPqto3XO6buZpZeBqYImi7cASt3Hc5CQV5Z5j1vOX0 HAwDexbJImkzGV42C/mtWA2jz+WS1vpYgAgm22IlPbrBrSvwxnklc+lR4ZDOUXo/9A+i 2iD29LqZQgevtueK9dIkcFrtwwYmfafmybbEMdm6lJJ1QpTk7DoE2TtF8KTXPVUaan71 HAbvYUyzBkLKI6+D0mUdoDSie62x5ZWH/ogaDOQW5BmS+pt8QLBO/f563vVsXKHWPaLR /FJ95qfFrgVOqOmgymOWYozy1X57yxrsTekwcazOI6eYD0LVzsgmcezwe4gltn7/L1Q/ 3uvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YywHGmpG96cPDBFVz7djOqEthwEbyWJVQArtvphIDd20zgR6Hi1 6QIMxqROUrZYQITvyKf+sKEBwxxO4rYow3O//Z1oJpKupWuvLj4vCrsd2+NQedg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGigHZ7x8WQpXpZn0ud+lplR+h3QcjZ4xm9v7KcHtdfJPD/WmIlPOVQNw6XGyLVdATnLJG9bw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c94c:b0:20c:5e86:9b5e with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2126a33eee4mr13412145ad.3.1732063253432; Tue, 19 Nov 2024 16:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2001:8003:8809:f400:c1c6:acf:7c9f:ee1b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-724bef8da82sm327556b3a.124.2024.11.19.16.40.52 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 19 Nov 2024 16:40:53 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6341D2DB-DD1F-41F0-9079-2642EED3CD20" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3818.100.11.1.3\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] PSRU COMING OFF Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 08:40:39 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <427C874A-315D-42B7-A04B-34DC1A485CD8@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3818.100.11.1.3) X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL -0.787 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider FREEMAIL_REPLY 1 From and body contain different freemails HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message KAM_MXURI 1.5 URI begins with a mail exchange prefix, i.e. mx.[...] RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 0.001 Good reputation (+3) RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL 0.001 Mailspike good senders SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record WEIRD_PORT 0.001 Uses non-standard port number for HTTP --Apple-Mail=_6341D2DB-DD1F-41F0-9079-2642EED3CD20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Doug.=20 Good reminder to check those isolator donuts. I don't know if the different models use donuts with the same Shore = value. I=E2=80=99ve pondered removing the damper all together as Tracy ended up = doing. See a copy of his email below: I=E2=80=99d like a latter update with further info from Tracy. Not sure = what year this was. Does anyone know? Steve Izett RD1-C on Renesis TRACY CROOK email re RD2 modification to remove damper =20 Finally got around to flight testing the aftermarket flywheel setup for = the RWS redrive.=20 The cracked flexplate issue some builders experienced came up at the = same time as my CNC source for input shafts lost the ability to make = them anymore due to loss of specialized spline making machinery. Since = I had to line up a new source I took this opportunity to review the = design from the input shaft back to the engine. Because the damper has = been such an expensive and labor-intensive part, it was looked at as = well. As a result, there have been enough changes to warrant a change = in the name so the new drives will be RD-2B & RD-2C. In rethinking the drive I had the thought that since the relatively low = frequency primary resonance range of the drive train is taken care of by = the system lash, that left only the high frequency harmonics that the = damper is responsible for. This high range is the factor that creates = the red zone in rpm ranges found on some certified engines and metal = prop combinations. As far as I know, no one has used a metal prop on = an RD-1x drive so I decided that it was an unneeded requirement. The = new design has no damper at all and consequently it has a "No Metal = Propeller" restriction. Replacing the damper is a flanged spline that is bolted directly to the = flywheel using the same bolts (longer bolts required) that attach the = flywheel to the counterweight. The spline is a different spec (15 = splines instead of 30) so it is not compatible with the RD-1 damper but = the new shaft itself is backward compatible with the remainder of the = drive. I retrofitted the same RD-1C that was on my RV-4 for these = tests. The flywheel was an aluminum racing flywheel with the replaceable iron = friction surface unbolted and removed. Really looks pretty and = professional compared to the flexplate. Any of the aftermarket RX-7 & = RX-8 racing flywheels (steel or aluminum) that utilize the auto = counterweight may be used.=20 As David Leonard found, these flywheels place the ring gear about .2" = closer to the engine than the flexplate. To compensate, I milled .2" = off the front surface of the adapter plate where the starter mounts. No = changes were needed to the starter itself. I did not bother to grind = the lead-in bevel on the ring gear teeth as discussed earlier. Starter = engagement was smooth anyway. The RV-4 drive had over 700 hours on it and everything looked beautiful = inside. No signs of wear other than a shallow groove (~.002") on the = input shaft where the 1mm thrust bearing race between the two needle = bearings rides. Others have reported more than this in fewer hours so = this is an area to inspect carefully. The new input shaft is a harder = alloy (post machining through hardened 4340) than the the RD-1 which was = pre hardened 4140. This should reduce the wear in this area. The old = flexplate with over 1000 hours was still crack free. The input shaft = oil seal still looked and felt new so it was not replaced as planed. = Others have reported these leaking in much fewer hours. Don't know the = reason but I suspect that oil temperatures out of range may be a factor. = NEVER allow oil temps to exceed redline. If they go higher, back off = the power then land and correct the cooling system. Only 1 hour of flight testing so far but all indications were good. = Operated the engine through the full range of rpm up to 7100 looking for = telltale signs of resonance. I was sort of expecting to feel, sense or = hear some indication of increased harshness in the drive with no rubber = anywhere in the system but if anything, it felt smoother. There was = none of the 'Waaa --- Waaa' warbling sound (like a twin engine with the = engines out of sync) that I had with the Ross drive years ago. So far = I'm very satisfied with the results but it's still early in the tests.=20= =20 Tracy Crook > On 20 Nov 2024, at 4:28=E2=80=AFam, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM dlomheim@aol.com = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > I noticed very small specks of rubber on my firewall and = traced it to the PSRU; and I can see it=E2=80=99s been tossing little = pieces which have collected on a spacer block. PSRU is coming off, but = curious if you all have seen this as well, and is the cause usually just = the rubber dampers getting =E2=80=9Ctired=E2=80=9D / beyond service = life? I guess I=E2=80=99ll find out for sure when I get it off=E2=80=A6 >=20 > Doug (working on RV-7A w/RX-8 13B) > Sent from my iPhone-- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --Apple-Mail=_6341D2DB-DD1F-41F0-9079-2642EED3CD20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks = Doug. 

Good reminder to check those isolator = donuts.
I don't know if the different models use donuts with the = same Shore value.
I=E2=80=99ve pondered removing the damper = all together as Tracy ended up doing. See a copy of his email = below:
I=E2=80=99d like a latter update with further info from = Tracy. Not sure what year this was. Does anyone = know?

Steve Izett
RD1-C on = Renesis


TRACY CROOK email re RD2 = modification to remove damper

 

Finally got around to flight testing the = aftermarket flywheel setup for the RWS redrive. 

The cracked flexplate = issue some builders experienced came up at the same time as my CNC = source for input shafts lost the ability to make them anymore due to = loss of specialized spline making machinery.  Since I had to line = up a new source I took this opportunity to review the design from the = input shaft back to the engine.   Because the damper has been = such an expensive and labor-intensive part, it was looked at as = well.   As a result, there have been enough changes to warrant = a change in the name so the new drives will be RD-2B & = RD-2C.

In rethinking = the drive I had the thought that since the relatively low frequency = primary resonance range of the drive train is taken care of by the = system lash, that left only the high frequency harmonics that the damper = is responsible for.  This high range is the factor that creates the = red zone in rpm ranges found on some certified engines and metal prop = combinations.   As far as I know, no one has used a metal prop on = an RD-1x drive so I decided that it was an unneeded requirement.  = The new design has no damper at all and consequently it has a "No Metal = Propeller" restriction.

Replacing the damper is a flanged spline that is bolted directly = to the flywheel using the same bolts (longer bolts required) that attach = the flywheel to the counterweight.  The spline is a different spec = (15 splines instead of 30) so it is not compatible with the RD-1 damper = but the new shaft itself is backward compatible with the remainder of = the drive.  I retrofitted the same RD-1C that was on my RV-4 for = these tests.

The = flywheel was an aluminum racing flywheel with the replaceable iron = friction surface unbolted and removed.  Really looks pretty and = professional compared to the flexplate.  Any of the aftermarket = RX-7 & RX-8 racing flywheels (steel or aluminum) that utilize the = auto counterweight may be used. 

As David Leonard found, these flywheels = place the ring gear about .2" closer to the engine than the = flexplate.  To compensate, I milled .2" off the front surface of = the adapter plate where the starter mounts.  No changes were needed = to the starter itself.   I did not bother to grind the lead-in = bevel on the ring gear teeth as discussed earlier.   Starter = engagement was smooth anyway.

The RV-4 drive had over 700 hours on it and everything looked = beautiful inside.  No signs of wear other than a shallow groove = (~.002") on the input shaft where the 1mm thrust bearing race between = the two needle bearings rides.  Others have reported more than this = in fewer hours so this is an area to inspect carefully.  The new = input shaft is a harder alloy (post machining through hardened 4340) = than the the RD-1 which was pre hardened 4140.  This should reduce = the wear in this area.   The old flexplate with over 1000 hours was = still crack free.   The input shaft oil seal still looked and = felt new so it was not replaced as planed.  Others have reported = these leaking in much fewer hours.  Don't know the reason but I = suspect that oil temperatures out of range may be a factor.  NEVER = allow oil temps to exceed redline.  If they go higher, back off the = power then land and correct the cooling system.

Only 1 hour of flight testing so far but = all indications were good.  Operated the engine through the full = range of rpm up to 7100 looking for telltale signs of = resonance.   I was sort of expecting to feel, sense or hear = some indication of increased harshness in the drive with no rubber = anywhere in the system but if anything, it felt smoother.  There = was none of the 'Waaa --- Waaa' warbling sound (like a twin engine with = the engines out of sync) that I had with the Ross drive years ago.  = So far I'm very satisfied with the results but it's still early in the = tests. 
   
Tracy Crook




On 20 Nov 2024, at 4:28=E2=80=AFam, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM = dlomheim@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:



<IMG_0352.jpg>I noticed very small specks of rubber on my firewall and traced it to = the PSRU; and I can see it=E2=80=99s been tossing little pieces which = have collected on a spacer block.  PSRU is coming off, but curious = if you all have seen this as well, and is the cause usually just the = rubber dampers getting =E2=80=9Ctired=E2=80=9D / beyond service life? =   I guess I=E2=80=99ll find out for sure when I get it = off=E2=80=A6

Doug (working on RV-7A w/RX-8 13B)
Sent from my = iPhone--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
=

= --Apple-Mail=_6341D2DB-DD1F-41F0-9079-2642EED3CD20--