X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 2398534 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 07:54:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.177; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1bf1935f6c2so25582555ad.1 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:54:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1694951631; x=1695556431; darn=lancaironline.net; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UKVbcOE44BJoPWCEMkir0dfr2CXvoSteWAOST/Fqosg=; b=nmleHJsjyxmdKQxTftM+xck4zBLD/HoOzaNPStUIC8mw8ey+wk3zE2TXM23CEhYEts HAMT2drBOVR9jSTkOXWC7mCqmabB7gBNNApnnPE6fQjGEczM2ciH/2QaD66U+PvBVkRN vi+kAd18i2+is7PG6lVBgJNwcNzjs1zrVIv8vESWUj4j8cwAVGtjIOwxnltBkqXKo9Iu Uu2ef3Jiraw9Ci6XnD2p/7iDJNr7b367C7IgwBfrHnx6yGu8M+sJO/WaFWi8auGPyDus VUrWw53Y0oUTGu4VnHHytsQIphhX0AinOO5+5pasKBTs9RQy2iwuEtvEKODZZJj2sCc9 UZgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694951631; x=1695556431; h=message-id:in-reply-to:to:references:date:subject:mime-version:from :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UKVbcOE44BJoPWCEMkir0dfr2CXvoSteWAOST/Fqosg=; b=H4szeVFv56td7mEkh/SSBTelM5cSs7SmevBMyNJypPaGd6H9KDoZ5/ZOyXClBaZxkp wbbWOgFu3RVvds8millitP70LAVyMyZGWXanpZW3Qc0xGXjz/LEJ0d2jnUjZCB6dvMiD wT5ZihuzWX8Jpw87QZlQTmUN7VHZJK7Sp2djJAgEF6Madsij+Zn7ArXJxpUpYJDrKuFj sWBr+pWpo9ZD0KDJIVL8KQy3mqDDmi+5CxXU6LS3Erv4eC4S5KcxsIZ97P7GbhGl5nkP K/PHwgaehTH8Gz+okR0JE9zsXW9dWCmyR1xQK0pmxM6NxlIG07ml9CigeZI8nG/JENnt T+7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxtIZQ8DADyeEgIhzHfXEg65DODHuBLFomDWpFb+Pv8lHz6DJrf XqMHAStyZkjBLAyF4+/eNjcH5y7MVDk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEVOTf5BMbCPfezHWeBmnWktaJ7kbqHtRmtxg1PmNzYco94FINGEIAt4rKgaB1ia2OlWEISVg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e884:b0:1b0:3ab6:5140 with SMTP id w4-20020a170902e88400b001b03ab65140mr8447185plg.4.1694951631197; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from smtpclient.apple (220-235-72-153.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.72.153]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n14-20020a170902e54e00b001bdd7579b5dsm6516538plf.240.2023.09.17.04.53.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7749C9D7-3EE4-4946-87EC-F6867FFBB17D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.600.7\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 19:53:36 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <124BB40E-3591-4CB4-9649-DDABC620D135@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.600.7) --Apple-Mail=_7749C9D7-3EE4-4946-87EC-F6867FFBB17D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Finn You=E2=80=99ve been busy! I=E2=80=99m Renesis 4 port with the EGT=E2=80=99s perhaps in the same = location, close to the ports so may read a little hot. On my last flight in April before pulling her down for a major refit I = got: Highest EGT on take off - R2 891C (1636F) @ 7180 RPM, 28.9 in/hg, 17 = Gal/Hr, 87 Lambda (I=E2=80=99m flying a constant speed prop, therefore = the RPM=E2=80=99s) I think I missed answering your question recently. My new system Micromite based (not flown yet) parses data from the = Skyview EFIS serial out and I=E2=80=99m using the Oil Pressure data to = turn on/off the ALM Board. I use the analog output of the ALM Board into the Skyview to display = Lambda. The output is rock solid. I=E2=80=99ve been through my first EGT probes and onto the 2nd pair. Cheers Steve > On 17 Sep 2023, at 10:36 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >=20 > More discrepancies: highest EGT recorded in todays 30 min flight was = on rotor 2 and was 1803F =3D 894F. EGT probes are located just outside = the outside exhaust ports (only option with stock exhaust manifold). = That's with a new EGT probe (old one just replaced after tip burned = off). >=20 > Should also clarify:=20 > the O2 (mixture) excursion that started this thread was recorded by = the EM3 engine monitor, which led to O2 sensor replacement. In other = words: chased a red herring. >=20 > Finn >=20 > On 9/16/2023 10:15 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >> I did get the new LSU 4.9 sensor I recently ordered working (bad = connection to ALM-board). But EM3 still recording more and more frequent = excursions to 480 (Lambda =3D 2) from the 171 (Lambda =3D 1) normal (EC3 = numbers). >>=20 >> I realized that my ALM-board also has a serial output in addition to = the 0-5V analog one I've been using. >> Every 20mS it outputs Lambda and also the LSU 4.9 O2 sensor = temperature (in deg C) (among other things). >> I'm now reading that serial output into an Arduino Mega 2590 board = with a data logging add-on. (Also reads EM3 and Dynon D100 EFIS serial = outputs, displays trim tab positions and does other tings.) >>=20 >> For some reason I'm getting a rather noisy digital results (temp = varying between -273C (0) and reasonable temps. >> When the engine is not running the ALM-board maintains the 780C temp = well (but also noisy digital signal). >>=20 >> Anyway, the interesting point is that I'm seeing temps as high as = 1,026C (6,600 RPM burning 11.8 GPH at 7,500 density altitude). >>=20 >> =46rom the Bosch LSU 4.9 spec sheet: "Exhaust gas temperature: 930=C2=B0= C (1,030 for a short time)". >> I have mine mounted about 8 to 10" from the 135 deg turn after the = Renesis stock exhaust manifold. It appears I need to add an extension = that moves it out of the exhaust stream? >>=20 >> The digital Lambda output tracks the analog output well, but erratic = excursions on both [wrong!]. At this point I don't know if it's failure = to properly capture the digital signal or ALM-board, or LSU 4.9 = failing. I had replaced my original LSU 4.9 a few hours ago. >>=20 >> Actually, looking at todays logged analog output from a 30 min = flight, it is stable with no logged excursions (1 sec logging interval). = Analog output from ALM-board goes to EC3 mixture input. Then from EC3 to = EM3 data acquisition box and from there to EM3 display unit (and its = thumb-drive log) via serial link. So (as I write this) I think I can = rule out the LSU 4.9 and ALM-board and need to concentrate on the EM3. = Seems the last several weeks work on data logging, etc. have paid of :) >>=20 >> BTW I'm using a 14.2 factor to convert Lambda to ARF for 10% max = ethanol regular pump gas. >>=20 >> Finn >>=20 >> On 7/16/2023 7:11 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>> Hi Finn >>>=20 >>> Thanks for the reminder of the details, so it sounds like I should = power the controller ON as soon as the engine is running.=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks Finn. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 16 Jul 2023, at 8:48 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Steve, >>>>=20 >>>> I reread the ALM board manual: >>>> >>>> >>>>=20 >>>> I guess I missed the second part :) >>>>=20 >>>> So to keep it simple, maybe a relay powered by the oil pressure = switch? >>>> Or what input do you use for that for your CoPilot? >>>>=20 >>>> Finn >>>>=20 >>>> On 7/15/2023 12:55 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>>>> Hi Finn >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sounds like you use the same ALM board as me. All I recall is = reading that you need a genuine Bosch, but not sure if that was simply = sales talk. >>>>> I switch mine on manually a few moments after startup as per their = instructions to avoid damaging the sensor. >>>>> I=E2=80=99m just in the process of building a micro I call CoPilot = to manage a few things for me. One is the Wideband switch on after = start. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Cheers >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve Izett >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 15 Jul 2023, at 1:58 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I now have about 100 engine hours on my Bosch LSU 4.9 wide band = oxygen sensor with the Ecotron ALM-Board (0-5V output). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Recently I've seen the output intermittently drop to 0 volts. So = I replaced the sensor with one I bought on eBay a couple if years ago. = (0258017025 WideBand O2 Oxygen Lambda Sensor LSU 4.9 for PLX UEGO AEM = 30-2004 New). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Well, that doesn't work at all. The ALM-Board outputs zero volts = all the time. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Anyone have experience with the Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Are there versions with different pin-outs but same part number = (0258017025)? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Finn >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7749C9D7-3EE4-4946-87EC-F6867FFBB17D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Finn

You=E2=80=99ve been = busy!

I=E2=80=99m Renesis 4 port with the = EGT=E2=80=99s perhaps in the same location, close to the ports so may = read a little hot.
On my last flight in April before pulling = her down for a major refit I got:
Highest EGT on take off - R2 = 891C (1636F) @ 7180 RPM, 28.9 in/hg, 17 Gal/Hr, 87 Lambda (I=E2=80=99m = flying a constant speed prop, therefore the = RPM=E2=80=99s)

I think I missed answering your = question recently.
My new system Micromite based (not flown = yet) parses data from the Skyview EFIS serial out and I=E2=80=99m using = the Oil Pressure data to turn on/off the ALM Board.
I use the = analog output of the ALM Board into the Skyview to display Lambda. The = output is rock solid.
I=E2=80=99ve been through my first EGT = probes and onto the 2nd = pair.

Cheers

Steve
=


On 17 Sep 2023, at = 10:36 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

More = discrepancies: highest EGT recorded in todays 30 min flight was on rotor = 2 and was 1803F =3D 894F. EGT probes are located just outside the = outside exhaust ports (only option with stock exhaust manifold). That's = with a new EGT probe (old one just replaced after tip burned = off).

Should also clarify: 
the O2 (mixture) = excursion that started this thread was recorded by the EM3 engine = monitor, which led to O2 sensor replacement. In other words: chased a = red herring.

Finn

On 9/16/2023 10:15 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
I did get the new LSU 4.9 sensor I recently = ordered working (bad connection to ALM-board). But EM3 still recording = more and more frequent excursions to 480 (Lambda =3D 2) from the 171 = (Lambda =3D 1) normal (EC3 numbers).

I realized that my ALM-board = also has a serial output in addition to the 0-5V analog one I've been = using.
Every 20mS it outputs Lambda and also the LSU 4.9 O2 sensor = temperature (in deg C) (among other things).
I'm now reading that = serial output into an Arduino Mega 2590 board with a data logging = add-on. (Also reads EM3 and Dynon D100 EFIS serial outputs, displays = trim tab positions and does other tings.)

For some reason I'm = getting a rather noisy digital results (temp varying between -273C (0) = and reasonable temps.
When the engine is not running the ALM-board = maintains the 780C temp well (but also noisy digital = signal).

Anyway, the interesting point is that I'm seeing temps = as high as 1,026C (6,600 RPM burning 11.8 GPH  at 7,500 density = altitude).

=46rom the Bosch LSU 4.9 spec sheet: "Exhaust gas = temperature: 930=C2=B0C (1,030 for a short time)".
I have mine = mounted about 8 to 10" from the 135 deg turn after the Renesis stock = exhaust manifold. It appears I need to add an extension that moves it = out of the exhaust stream?

The digital Lambda output tracks the = analog output well, but erratic excursions on both [wrong!]. At this = point I don't know if it's failure to properly capture the digital = signal or  ALM-board, or LSU 4.9 failing. I had replaced my = original LSU 4.9 a few hours ago.

Actually, looking at todays = logged analog output from a 30 min flight, it is stable with no logged = excursions (1 sec logging interval). Analog output from ALM-board goes = to EC3 mixture input. Then from EC3 to EM3 data acquisition box  = and from there to EM3 display unit (and its thumb-drive log) via serial = link.  So (as I write this) I think I can rule out the LSU 4.9 and = ALM-board and need to concentrate on the EM3. Seems the last several = weeks work on data logging, etc.  have paid of :)

BTW I'm = using a 14.2 factor to convert Lambda to ARF for 10% max ethanol regular = pump gas.

Finn

On 7/16/2023 7:11 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Finn

Thanks = for the reminder of the details, so it sounds like I should power the = controller ON as soon as the engine is = running. 

Thanks =  Finn.



On 16 Jul 2023, at 8:48 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Steve,

I = reread the ALM board manual:
<dncbiflahgfcdcla.png>= ;
<ojbfbooeieolhjmj.png>= ;

I guess I missed the second part :)

So to keep it = simple, maybe a relay powered by the oil pressure switch?
Or what = input do you use for that for your CoPilot?

Finn

On = 7/15/2023 12:55 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Finn

Sounds like you use the same ALM board as me. All I recall is reading =
that you need a genuine Bosch, but not sure if that was simply sales =
talk.
I switch mine on manually a few moments after startup as per their =
instructions to avoid damaging the sensor.
I=E2=80=99m just in the process of building a micro I call CoPilot to =
manage a few things for me. One is the Wideband switch on after start.

Cheers

Steve Izett




On 15 Jul 2023, at 1:58 =
am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I now have about 100 engine hours on my Bosch LSU 4.9 wide band oxygen =
sensor with the Ecotron ALM-Board (0-5V output).

Recently I've seen the output intermittently  drop to 0 volts. So I =
replaced the sensor with one I bought on eBay a couple if years ago. =
(0258017025 WideBand O2 Oxygen Lambda Sensor LSU 4.9 for PLX UEGO AEM =
30-2004 New).

Well, that doesn't work at all. The ALM-Board outputs zero volts all the =
time.

Anyone have experience with the Bosch LSU 4.9 oxygen sensor?

Are there versions with different pin-outs but same part number =
(0258017025)?

Finn


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