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[220.235.107.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l15-20020a17090a4d4f00b0023d16f05dd8sm1362624pjh.36.2023.03.15.06.22.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Mar 2023 06:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ECBD8097-FAD4-4065-A68D-2A8F32D74547" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.400.51.1.1\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Coolant barbs Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 21:22:10 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <6C779D4F-9258-4D83-8389-7BB7666169AC@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.400.51.1.1) --Apple-Mail=_ECBD8097-FAD4-4065-A68D-2A8F32D74547 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Andrew You were right. I mistakenly called my outlet the inlet. The restrictor is in the outlet where the thermostat has been removed = and flow much less restrictive than the OEM thermostat path. And yes a smaller outlet would have achieved the same thing I suppose = while reducing weight. Did you put the Re-medy pump in from the beginning? Would be interested = in a comparison of the pumps if anyone has that experience. I thought rightly or wrongly that the restrictor provides a slightly = higher pressure at the inlet of the pump and so reducing cavitation. Cheers Steve Izett > On 15 Mar 2023, at 8:00 pm, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au = wrote: >=20 > I blocked all unnessesary coolant leaks. Installed Remedy pump on = standard pulleys, 25mm hoses no restrictor, 1.3 bar cap, double stacked = crossflow heat exchanger under belly, can maintain full power max Rate = of climb without coolant issues, so it overcools and could possibly do = with cowl flap on heat exchanger air outlet. >=20 > The argument for restrictors in the coolant line dont really make = sense to me, better to use smaller hoses to restrict flow and save = weight. restricting the inlet of any pump is one sure way of ensuring = cavitation so if it must be done, restrict the pump outlet or in our = case engine outlet. Install 2 temp sensors, inlet & outlet to check = deltaT to check if =E2=80=9Cmods/improvements=E2=80=9D are real. >=20 > Oil cooling was whole nother issue in my setup, mazda oil heat = exchangers are crap and should never be considered, a good racing = exchanger that can flow max rpm oil flow is a must and 5/8 oil lines = also otherwise oil will open the pump safety valve and dump straight = back into sump causing immediate overtemp. >=20 > On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 10:39 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: >> Hi Mark. >>=20 >> Thats what I have done re throttle body and heater with my Renesis. >> Do you have a line from the top of rear iron(front in the aeroplane) = to purge air from the top of the motor back to a highest point in the = system? >>=20 >> I tapped and plugged the hole between the pump in and out circuits = below to OEM thermostat, but I didn=E2=80=99t put a hole in the plug for = air to escape from the inlet side. >> Is that recommended by the experts? Perhaps I missed that advice. >> When I remove a screw on cap where the original thermostat used to = lived, and my highest point in the system there is never any air = trapped. >>=20 >> For clearance with cowl I cut off the Renesis thermostat housing and = welded a screw on cap on top and an inlet barb onto the side so the flow = is pretty much directly inline with the pump entry in the front housing. >> I have from memory a 5/8=E2=80=9D restrictor in the inlet to the = pump.=20 >> Basically a piece of 1=E2=80=9D aluminium tube that fits through the = cap entry I welded on, that blocks the inlet except for 5/8=E2=80=9D = holes drilled through both sides of the tube inline with the flow.=20 >>=20 >> I removed that restrictor recently and the temps went up = considerably, which I put down to the pump cavitating well below my take = off RPM limit to 7500. >>=20 >> My Renesis is Series 1 and I understand the pumps are known to = cavitate at higher rpm.=20 >> I=E2=80=99m thinking, by removing the thermostat and smoothing the = flow path I've lowered the rpm of the pump cavitating. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m presently considering changing the pump to an NZ pump = many racers use (The impeller looks similar to the US Re-medy pump).=20 >> Basically an improved impeller designed to reduce cavitation at high = rpm. >> I might then be able to reduce the restriction and perhaps increase = the flow rate, which will perhaps increase cooling. >>=20 >> Has anyone else changed pump, used a larger pulley to slow the pump, = and has data to share? >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Steve Izett >> Flying - Glasair Super IIRG Genesis 4 Port RD1-C EC2 EM3 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > On 15 Mar 2023, at 9:37 am, Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com = > wrote: >> >=20 >> > Planning my coolant flow for my engine setup on test stand only. = Want to minimize unnecessary water lines. In searching the list/rx-8 = forums I couldn=E2=80=99t find any reason I cannot just block the in and = out spots for the throttle body and heater cores.=20 >> >=20 >> > Will be bypassing the thermostat with center plug and hole tapped = for air bubble. Only other line will be from radiator to expansion tank.=20= >> >=20 >> > Am I mis understanding something? >> >=20 >> > Regards, >> > Mark >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > <2CD7ED4F-3167-4AD8-87D3-6B01C6CD72D9-compressed.pdf>-- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --=20 > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --Apple-Mail=_ECBD8097-FAD4-4065-A68D-2A8F32D74547 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Andrew

You were right. I mistakenly called my outlet = the inlet.
The restrictor is in the outlet where the = thermostat has been removed and flow much less restrictive than the OEM = thermostat path.
And yes a smaller outlet would have achieved = the same thing I suppose while reducing = weight.

Did you put the Re-medy pump in from = the beginning? Would be interested in a comparison of the pumps if = anyone has that experience.

I thought rightly = or wrongly that the restrictor provides a slightly higher pressure at = the inlet of the pump and so reducing = cavitation.

Cheers

Steve= Izett



On 15 Mar 2023, at 8:00 pm, Andrew Martin = andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

I blocked all unnessesary coolant leaks. Installed Remedy = pump on standard pulleys, 25mm hoses no restrictor, 1.3 bar cap, double = stacked crossflow heat exchanger under belly, can maintain full power = max Rate of climb without coolant issues, so it overcools and could = possibly do with cowl flap on heat exchanger air outlet.

The argument for restrictors in = the coolant line dont really make sense to me, better to use = smaller hoses to restrict flow and save weight. restricting the inlet of = any pump is one sure way of ensuring cavitation so if it must be done, = restrict the pump outlet or in our case engine outlet.  Install 2 = temp sensors, inlet & outlet to check deltaT to check if = =E2=80=9Cmods/improvements=E2=80=9D are real.

Oil cooling was whole nother = issue in my setup, mazda oil heat exchangers are crap and should never = be considered, a good racing exchanger that can flow max rpm oil flow is = a must and 5/8 oil lines also otherwise oil will open the pump safety = valve and dump straight back into sump causing immediate = overtemp.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 10:39 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Mark.

Thats what I have done re throttle body and heater with my Renesis.
Do you have a line from the top of rear iron(front in the aeroplane) to = purge air from the top of the motor back to a highest point in the = system?

I tapped and plugged the hole between the pump in and out circuits below = to OEM thermostat, but I didn=E2=80=99t put a hole in the plug for air = to escape from the inlet side.
Is that recommended by the experts? Perhaps I missed that advice.
When I remove a screw on cap where the original thermostat used to = lived, and my highest point in the system there is never any air = trapped.

For clearance with cowl I cut off the Renesis thermostat housing and = welded a screw on cap on top and an inlet barb onto the side so the flow = is pretty much directly inline with the pump entry in the front = housing.
I have from memory a 5/8=E2=80=9D restrictor in the inlet to the pump. =
Basically a piece of 1=E2=80=9D aluminium tube that fits through the cap = entry I welded on, that blocks the inlet except for 5/8=E2=80=9D holes = drilled through both sides of the tube inline with the flow.

I removed that restrictor recently and the temps went up considerably, = which I put down to the pump cavitating well below my take off RPM limit = to 7500.

My Renesis is Series 1 and I understand the pumps are known to cavitate = at higher rpm.
I=E2=80=99m thinking, by removing the thermostat and smoothing the flow = path I've lowered the rpm of the pump cavitating.

I=E2=80=99m presently considering changing the pump to an NZ pump many = racers use (The impeller looks similar to the US Re-medy pump).
Basically an improved impeller designed to reduce cavitation at high = rpm.
I might then be able to reduce the restriction and perhaps increase the = flow rate, which will perhaps increase cooling.

Has anyone else changed pump, used a larger pulley to slow the pump, and = has data to share?

Cheers

Steve Izett
Flying - Glasair Super IIRG Genesis 4 Port RD1-C EC2 EM3




> On 15 Mar 2023, at 9:37 am, Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Planning my coolant flow for my engine setup on test stand only. = Want to minimize unnecessary water lines. In searching the list/rx-8 = forums I couldn=E2=80=99t find any reason I cannot just block the in and = out spots for the throttle body and heater cores.
>
> Will be bypassing the thermostat with center plug and hole tapped = for air bubble. Only other line will be from radiator to expansion tank. =
>
> Am I mis understanding something?
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> <2CD7ED4F-3167-4AD8-87D3-6B01C6CD72D9-compressed.pdf>--
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

= --Apple-Mail=_ECBD8097-FAD4-4065-A68D-2A8F32D74547--