X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from mail-pj1-f43.google.com ([209.85.216.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.13) with ESMTPS id 1881417 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:01:04 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.43; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by mail-pj1-f43.google.com with SMTP id h12-20020a17090aea8c00b0023d1311fab3so1689805pjz.1 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 05:01:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; t=1678881646; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tDsXrcm4shf3o8C3FUKcVWn3N7+eV20mncz0pfuboOA=; b=eo48VHpzxfzNqdtzbFRDusqFAFjBqtEf6ubtmnncqJAUGFzE0KgTX3bMf6XEEv0hIL vZyRatEDUzBBtLkmMh/to+keuqeeMWtsYmJ/RTN4B40boatxW8ojiiWhPFUhPRedmG8y a6gL4+WDsLc5Mx5SU3A6Ikd9uJJFQsnmNxgcrYGIiJ4aJUcIlFw5LtUoym5srx8Z4uM6 AHzgjAN6kri+ai1W5Waxfrs44btuL+8B2RGapUVgqh+fkCtoisEETlY+hqRdx2znx8mA /khftKT5fwvgpOzgA6mk/3igzkEEkAdkNtUHJOMoe75lPE7ZeNIskhjTSoxhS7gx2nEU sV6w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678881646; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tDsXrcm4shf3o8C3FUKcVWn3N7+eV20mncz0pfuboOA=; b=Vd3TmuK6oXq2Vr9T8UoLW12iVRLzlmc4AxWTBPF6X7CPCmJXNMPCsZCtLvxBsXDdwK 6EgULCCzNO5Zt49eY1FCPClDXJSEoOVCfphsEmXl3MTJ8Hctx7Jbi0vMUREHhax//dvK aX0jy47fABMdV/AAYQs9w8iSI28cgDe0wgtVOEZe9QcX454QAuuGRdPfBwsukAIIZDqV tpsD0ekyM+HuIZz9n+wvkFi3jynUkaVjNiyRlNqrPvYYPF/jc5qixi61eNc+PWfCBnmD 2oy69SuX2pTrlF2mAA68ZzRyrVy1Ov01fPyeeh5SJoEsiGeUUDjFO9J7mxz/GWL1MzQX nV4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKXu5B9IX+5v//NeaTLisMNC17gcXQCHDdBHEVXK3nC4A1SiKsW2 pOyjLxoFzYwcFa5LLklVY5P/KAu/0iIJZhGKT6EU442VjXEIl0k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8Z267DPNxlAuMVXi5ZaSHspBp/3+Q78QRoqRG4FiCqrL0wgJOwgJIcdna01hRUagPa0V8xiUxTVpiWZ4HjynE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:f7c5:b0:19f:2802:dabb with SMTP id h5-20020a170902f7c500b0019f2802dabbmr1043565plw.12.1678881643478; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 05:00:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 20:00:31 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant barbs To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fadeea05f6ef1761" --000000000000fadeea05f6ef1761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I blocked all unnessesary coolant leaks. Installed Remedy pump on standard pulleys, 25mm hoses no restrictor, 1.3 bar cap, double stacked crossflow heat exchanger under belly, can maintain full power max Rate of climb without coolant issues, so it overcools and could possibly do with cowl flap on heat exchanger air outlet. The argument for restrictors in the coolant line dont really make sense to me, better to use smaller hoses to restrict flow and save weight. restricting the inlet of any pump is one sure way of ensuring cavitation so if it must be done, restrict the pump outlet or in our case engine outlet. Install 2 temp sensors, inlet & outlet to check deltaT to check if =E2=80=9Cmods/improvements=E2=80=9D are real. Oil cooling was whole nother issue in my setup, mazda oil heat exchangers are crap and should never be considered, a good racing exchanger that can flow max rpm oil flow is a must and 5/8 oil lines also otherwise oil will open the pump safety valve and dump straight back into sump causing immediate overtemp. On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 at 10:39 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Mark. > > Thats what I have done re throttle body and heater with my Renesis. > Do you have a line from the top of rear iron(front in the aeroplane) to > purge air from the top of the motor back to a highest point in the system= ? > > I tapped and plugged the hole between the pump in and out circuits below > to OEM thermostat, but I didn=E2=80=99t put a hole in the plug for air to= escape > from the inlet side. > Is that recommended by the experts? Perhaps I missed that advice. > When I remove a screw on cap where the original thermostat used to lived, > and my highest point in the system there is never any air trapped. > > For clearance with cowl I cut off the Renesis thermostat housing and > welded a screw on cap on top and an inlet barb onto the side so the flow = is > pretty much directly inline with the pump entry in the front housing. > I have from memory a 5/8=E2=80=9D restrictor in the inlet to the pump. > Basically a piece of 1=E2=80=9D aluminium tube that fits through the cap = entry I > welded on, that blocks the inlet except for 5/8=E2=80=9D holes drilled th= rough both > sides of the tube inline with the flow. > > I removed that restrictor recently and the temps went up considerably, > which I put down to the pump cavitating well below my take off RPM limit = to > 7500. > > My Renesis is Series 1 and I understand the pumps are known to cavitate a= t > higher rpm. > I=E2=80=99m thinking, by removing the thermostat and smoothing the flow p= ath I've > lowered the rpm of the pump cavitating. > > I=E2=80=99m presently considering changing the pump to an NZ pump many ra= cers use > (The impeller looks similar to the US Re-medy pump). > Basically an improved impeller designed to reduce cavitation at high rpm. > I might then be able to reduce the restriction and perhaps increase the > flow rate, which will perhaps increase cooling. > > Has anyone else changed pump, used a larger pulley to slow the pump, and > has data to share? > > Cheers > > Steve Izett > Flying - Glasair Super IIRG Genesis 4 Port RD1-C EC2 EM3 > > > > > > On 15 Mar 2023, at 9:37 am, Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Planning my coolant flow for my engine setup on test stand only. Want t= o > minimize unnecessary water lines. In searching the list/rx-8 forums I > couldn=E2=80=99t find any reason I cannot just block the in and out spots= for the > throttle body and heater cores. > > > > Will be bypassing the thermostat with center plug and hole tapped for > air bubble. Only other line will be from radiator to expansion tank. > > > > Am I mis understanding something? > > > > Regards, > > Mark > > > > > > <2CD7ED4F-3167-4AD8-87D3-6B01C6CD72D9-compressed.pdf>-- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --=20 Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --000000000000fadeea05f6ef1761 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I blocked all unnessesary coolant leaks. Installed Remedy= pump on standard pulleys, 25mm hoses no restrictor, 1.3 bar cap, double st= acked crossflow heat exchanger under belly, can maintain full power max Rat= e of climb without coolant issues, so it overcools and could possibly do wi= th cowl flap on heat exchanger air outlet.

The argument for restrictors in the coolant line dont re= ally make=C2=A0sense to me, better to use smaller hoses to restrict flow an= d save weight. restricting the inlet of any pump is one sure way of ensurin= g cavitation so if it must be done, restrict the pump outlet or in our case= engine outlet.=C2=A0 Install 2 temp sensors, inlet & outlet to check d= eltaT to check if =E2=80=9Cmods/improvements=E2=80=9D are real.

Oil cooling was whole nother issue = in my setup, mazda oil heat exchangers are crap and should never be conside= red, a good racing exchanger that can flow max rpm oil flow is a must and 5= /8 oil lines also otherwise oil will open the pump safety valve and dump st= raight back into sump causing immediate overtemp.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 = at 10:39 am, Stephen Izett steph= en.izett@gmail.com <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Mark.

Thats what I have done re throttle body and heater with my Renesis.
Do you have a line from the top of rear iron(front in the aeroplane) to pur= ge air from the top of the motor back to a highest point in the system?

I tapped and plugged the hole between the pump in and out circuits below to= OEM thermostat, but I didn=E2=80=99t put a hole in the plug for air to esc= ape from the inlet side.
Is that recommended by the experts? Perhaps I missed that advice.
When I remove a screw on cap where the original thermostat used to lived, a= nd my highest point in the system there is never any air trapped.

For clearance with cowl I cut off the Renesis thermostat housing and welded= a screw on cap on top and an inlet barb onto the side so the flow is prett= y much directly inline with the pump entry in the front housing.
I have from memory a 5/8=E2=80=9D restrictor in the inlet to the pump.
Basically a piece of 1=E2=80=9D aluminium tube that fits through the cap en= try I welded on, that blocks the inlet except for 5/8=E2=80=9D holes drille= d through both sides of the tube inline with the flow.

I removed that restrictor recently and the temps went up considerably, whic= h I put down to the pump cavitating well below my take off RPM limit to 750= 0.

My Renesis is Series 1 and I understand the pumps are known to cavitate at = higher rpm.
I=E2=80=99m thinking, by removing the thermostat and smoothing the flow pat= h I've lowered the rpm of the pump cavitating.

I=E2=80=99m presently considering changing the pump to an NZ pump many race= rs use (The impeller looks similar to the US Re-medy pump).
Basically an improved impeller designed to reduce cavitation at high rpm. I might then be able to reduce the restriction and perhaps increase the flo= w rate, which will perhaps increase cooling.

Has anyone else changed pump, used a larger pulley to slow the pump, and ha= s data to share?

Cheers

Steve Izett
Flying - Glasair Super IIRG Genesis 4 Port RD1-C EC2 EM3




> On 15 Mar 2023, at 9:37 am, Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
>
> Planning my coolant flow for my engine setup on test stand only. Want = to minimize unnecessary water lines. In searching the list/rx-8 forums I co= uldn=E2=80=99t find any reason I cannot just block the in and out spots for= the throttle body and heater cores.
>
> Will be bypassing the thermostat with center plug and hole tapped for = air bubble. Only other line will be from radiator to expansion tank.
>
> Am I mis understanding something?
>
> Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> <2CD7ED4F-3167-4AD8-87D3-6B01C6CD72D9-compressed.pdf>--
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
--000000000000fadeea05f6ef1761--