X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com ([209.85.160.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.13) with ESMTPS id 1520090 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 11:05:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id z6so7561180qtv.5 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 08:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=NXvYOy/GzLajwl2MhtVGz9XM7D9FfCTvSCDy9q9CQdM=; b=nmQqnTL9Yv4LRUwsVz4A/vs2QzTKV89h4DadK/x6D5crLNheop5TlVMrof2VS197+z G2r/AlUwoBWdJguSOK+qBbBMgVeK25MiHlo9PK8cJ9gv1hDVJ/TTwwvHr2MewxO2ly1L BXHl4ryFnfDcRrCQfZrK0Xq60gDKuZ6XFL99pvl+gdwO1cJklIzjwebpjaMcX6WRCWjV zhK/dFANfpb1l3FG+j2O2D6UaXmLLh/AjkjuvF4CdwTwvv36tNeG/hSmVPf1dI503ZbU TOH3FtfVLQWgOuR+aFjLG5dp3mp25sLjYp7rEsnd2EOSOC9OhLHknucZSAYRhFrKX3s7 MrIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:from:content-language:references:to:subject:user-agent :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NXvYOy/GzLajwl2MhtVGz9XM7D9FfCTvSCDy9q9CQdM=; b=Zj144n+mo52IcrYZoUGPp10EedBOm7RnN5aUoKkPUo5RsmmBJqJtdvxZMZ4mjBAfq5 Aj8oyoqwTBYbRH1/PYSAmDCZuBBg279J8C535ueAghwDVFTpsTgRNb+J9ctcR4dsI2cR nu3lMQ9jBIOVVbR0nUP4xrIwO023mq5gq3geUHeD9SV8xE6vzOWIav8eIy6wcJ0OXzkz lTfc5x0tjhZfm1O8KVpqB/N130aaakZ0ajNZ+RRFhbiJwuhSC7pbehcmIIgqFDOG7ZLZ paxY769YDJZ09H+nbV0gSKiiwwPp+7L+VWkqplEiV18LB9We9en9kuehhoAezq6d3AWm +Kgg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1PgmprW228VtCX9ihiviCHpe2aWgCT3ByIdsYQS+uPqo9EhV3M j7mgWduSETlds+ImUfoW9N+tSoRL7+w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM53PnJeiXeNn3ok2dK8JcB5Wzuhww2f9T0BiSbWphTEd9x0nz6ctKmQToR1bEzjJgit/up/gA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7d0d:0:b0:39c:c5e0:37c0 with SMTP id g13-20020ac87d0d000000b0039cc5e037c0mr10627147qtb.537.1667228722607; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 08:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.54] ([50.86.156.24]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g4-20020ac81244000000b0039cb9b6c390sm3709795qtj.79.2022.10.31.08.05.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 31 Oct 2022 08:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------ijSE0tqEcsgcuQ8ZtUlQmmww" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 10:06:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.1 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 221031-2, 10/31/2022), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ijSE0tqEcsgcuQ8ZtUlQmmww Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I concur. Have a look at the cooling *exits* on Peter Garrison's Melmoth2 (conventional air cooled engine, but with updraft cooling): http://www.aerologic.com/M2website/ For a lot of us, the 'base of the windscreen' location isn't feasible for a cooling inlet, because the windscreen is a foot or so aft of the firewall. Charlie On 10/31/2022 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: > Article #4 ... > > That is all fine and dandy you say, but what if I have a high wing > taildragger with a welded steel tube fuselage, with lots of diagonal > tubes on the bottom of the 4 frame. In other words no place or room to > put a belly duct with radiator without a major rework and redesign of > the steel tube frame. The radiator (or radiators) have to go into the > engine cowling. This naturally is a less than ideal location and can > give you some dandy problems. The drawing below shows wind-tunnel > results on a front engine installation. > > Everybody has at one time or another come across this cowling shape > (Fig. 22). Notice the split between the pressure and lift on the > spinner! This is one reason why you should have a good spinner > bulkhead in front of the propeller. The forces on a large spinner can > be substantial. Notice the lift on the front part of the cowling which > is trying to suck the front end open. This is a good place for some > exhaust louvers or openings for venting hot air out of the engine > compartment. Further back on the cowling and in front of the > windshield we have high pressure air. A good place to install an air > intake. That is exactly where most cars have the fresh air pickup. It > is also the place where Porsche and other sports cars pick up the > cooling air forthe turbo intercooler. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Jeff Whaley > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2022 8:14 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* Re: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links > Hi Le Roux, I think you'll be the first to try a top-mounted radiator > on a Rotary install.  Generally and with reference to those Hans Meyer > articles, the pressure on top of the cowling is near zero or even > negative until you get really close to the windshield.  I won't say it > can't be done but it's going to be tricky - you may need a fan and > most likely will need a fan during ground operations. Good luck - keep > us posted ... Jeff > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, October 31, 2022 6:01 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* flyrotary Digest #5273 >         Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #5273 > >  1) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Erik Snyman erik.snyman@bigpond.com" >  2) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" > >  3) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" > >  4) Re: Radiator OPS / Lamar cooling book >     by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" >  5) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" >  6) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Chris Sargent cleesgt@gmail.com" >  7) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" > >  8) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links >     by " 12348ung@gmail.com" >  9) RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement >     by "Doug Lomheim rv9flyer13b@gmail.com" > 10) Re: RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement >     by "Rob McMillan robmcmillanpls@gmail.com" > > > This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to >   the mailing list . > To unsubscribe, E-mail to: > To switch to the FEED mode, E-mail to > Send administrative queries to > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com --------------ijSE0tqEcsgcuQ8ZtUlQmmww Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I concur. Have a look at the cooling *exits* on Peter Garrison's Melmoth2 (conventional air cooled engine, but with updraft cooling):
http://www.aerologic.com/M2website/

For a lot of us, the 'base of the windscreen' location isn't feasible for a cooling inlet, because the windscreen is a foot or so aft of the firewall.

Charlie

On 10/31/2022 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote:
Article #4 ...

That is all fine and dandy you say, but what if I have a high wing taildragger with a welded steel tube fuselage, with lots of diagonal tubes on the bottom of the 4 frame. In other words no place or room to put a belly duct with radiator without a major rework and redesign of the steel tube frame. The radiator (or radiators) have to go into the engine cowling. This naturally is a less than ideal location and can give you some dandy problems. The drawing below shows wind-tunnel results on a front engine installation.

Everybody has at one time or another come across this cowling shape (Fig. 22). Notice the split between the pressure and lift on the spinner! This is one reason why you should have a good spinner bulkhead in front of the propeller. The forces on a large spinner can be substantial. Notice the lift on the front part of the cowling which is trying to suck the front end open. This is a good place for some exhaust louvers or openings for venting hot air out of the engine compartment. Further back on the cowling and in front of the windshield we have high pressure air. A good place to install an air intake. That is exactly where most cars have the fresh air pickup. It is also the place where Porsche and other sports cars pick up the cooling air forthe turbo intercooler.


From: Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 8:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links
 
Hi Le Roux, I think you'll be the first to try a top-mounted radiator on a Rotary install.  Generally and with reference to those Hans Meyer articles, the pressure on top of the cowling is near zero or even negative until you get really close to the windshield.  I won't say it can't be done but it's going to be tricky - you may need a fan and most likely will need a fan during ground operations. Good luck - keep us posted ... Jeff
From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 6:01 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: flyrotary Digest #5273
 
        Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #5273

 1) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Erik Snyman erik.snyman@bigpond.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 2) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 3) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 4) Re: Radiator OPS / Lamar cooling book
    by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 5) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 6) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Chris Sargent cleesgt@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 7) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 8) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by " 12348ung@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 9) RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement
    by "Doug Lomheim rv9flyer13b@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
10) Re: RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement
    by "Rob McMillan robmcmillanpls@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

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