X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com" Received: from [40.107.244.61] (HELO NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.13) with ESMTPS id 1519637 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 08:45:49 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=40.107.244.61; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=d7P4PVUFZ/kq1k6CEcVQtxmW8SbuxW8ZeM/ufiUqMAL8xkyRDp3D84WRCp1jzQOfyBdc8r9pS5rDKiWqs4i/T0eFdXjdHv9Q39EBjCDcKjjQz9QGarlaKBOFXYUtoIChUMPET34eZISjp68lMRTKZVHKa8cCCH7ulFAGFOGPzV6+CzlfG7hBMPFPlUhAVVVnD0IjqFl4zzQdC9EuEjXzcjNPh3Gr3v4VhBTIQy0kHe2yZksbt187jRrQQneCix1jGBkloHACoAmq6LU+IFHs7Mu3WbjaQ7hBlzqtZ3mRtCv15WbTlDPWe5dT5jhM9FgErHgt4wrvFCSkWurZkEvX6A== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=1Svg0XzMBxeWlPO4b7nEBA0/5mt6ghVNUbseQ8ywsMY=; b=m51FW2xBkWwz6umC/e1YARUnyQI3vAcLooam4F78K4T9VQOUvBx7iyBCUQnvvzXWBKavq3jzSL1vglAO26QY9kHuV7ZRGwijiqN1UnKaQ8UGvIjQWfON0Dzo/4iMPXh5ZUVc5JY9NptRrsD2YEo9VE24XEHZP5KayQEekBPNJJb8zz/dfHuJTJO+pJeH6z4C24QP8f4TZ8Hx2LjsVMggzD4z76NPvPpuRbs3y15HHIffGcx/JdNf2HnsoE/MWT0JxCyVgg10CORFyxBKO55kgAPkqOyb74zE+qomwrUfV9ucaBypcodWfkElFFpOxyJ8axhfmqGbnLrynvatef+slA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=datacast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=datacast.com; dkim=pass header.d=datacast.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=IDCO365.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-IDCO365-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=1Svg0XzMBxeWlPO4b7nEBA0/5mt6ghVNUbseQ8ywsMY=; b=QomqXi1fpEo/w01GPBfSPVLhFBSOtfeGGQ/ec1aksAQZbJ69mqOpv0WPsy/uDrnTls5aWknQHz1cdaHM0s5ckVXBx1B3blmnvyWDRwCFtNdqKWAsZE9dw3wnieBvqKiCID589iShoPbJchJAAF4hJs6hV6aRQK4hHuQYEFuM8S4= Received: from SN4PR18MB4888.namprd18.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:213::8) by DM4PR18MB4240.namprd18.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:397::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5769.16; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 12:45:29 +0000 Received: from SN4PR18MB4888.namprd18.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::84d3:556b:dd32:84e6]) by SN4PR18MB4888.namprd18.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::84d3:556b:dd32:84e6%5]) with mapi id 15.20.5769.018; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 12:45:28 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links Thread-Index: AQHY7SJkuZlfUaPYqkiPNbJ8yD6woa4octSs Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 12:45:28 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=datacast.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN4PR18MB4888:EE_|DM4PR18MB4240:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0779b5a6-837c-47d3-8019-08dabb3dca5d x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:SN4PR18MB4888.namprd18.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230022)(366004)(376002)(396003)(346002)(136003)(39850400004)(451199015)(316002)(9686003)(26005)(478600001)(2940100002)(71200400001)(7696005)(6506007)(38070700005)(186003)(53546011)(33656002)(86362001)(83380400001)(55016003)(122000001)(38100700002)(2906002)(66556008)(19627405001)(6916009)(66899015)(66946007)(76116006)(64756008)(66446008)(8676002)(66476007)(91956017)(5660300002)(52536014)(8936002)(41300700001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?fVTf0vmz+gQm1N1nIrNDTh239JF2Etgy7BDBcr7AzNCoa4UF8lSG4qqq6nB1?= =?us-ascii?Q?uxGKm/nd18D2IJW0Xlbyc6N2Vz3WiUWKLlxgv93muXOYk6do6LcByBYb8Zxc?= =?us-ascii?Q?MDsEdvQpb/A6T4yhoOQHFyQnfjzmLs971woeCvtf1Ww08a9LBZPrQeeoxwBk?= =?us-ascii?Q?IXH6EUNZ21ikXhNzUW/hrqvSLJB6Op/6C+CECEjmvl5A6/VI5ghQLCnu9/H3?= =?us-ascii?Q?eBHorwiw0rdxZ5st+F8AMZAM43YRTEhFooo3wiha0kwGEFeMkdDjfA/sfN1S?= =?us-ascii?Q?PtHaFBmwr8irlUz3zYHuPyMJqYJMSzIg6g5mj59eZbv61oDtoMv1/X70uYW8?= =?us-ascii?Q?9M1Boa0+vVxbaeVcj5Fpv68vln3WIuQAHfzBsyQwbF9lDBaiIW+E6HbgAwym?= =?us-ascii?Q?CYVTBfGljBe1Iae2CuzgztTHIXXs0phJqFiHxOQIfnlR+s1DFblThtm6E6ME?= =?us-ascii?Q?k7e0RnlvgJ5kt8vFM0M+RIUWQa08Dd0SZByt/lujFFecDjgHnvN+SznNl7gP?= =?us-ascii?Q?dqsMs0Yla8MoPLUJS6Zl+GY8HbcQfvvJ8P9q4AEhB0TaRfszvspP6JkGeIeG?= =?us-ascii?Q?vrbNfzGFH1/wlm+BZecYxmmX44K9AIYmXawwDwUWPIhIZVeNt5duH6GrMBl6?= =?us-ascii?Q?6m/QEOBDDOHJjctNSWFcKkbi8xf0qDU+MU6GjrNQ92rSiPsevbstKeh1yfk1?= =?us-ascii?Q?mOWZa6Wk83fKrsYjuReymSBmGOgyr5nqQgJV+/BglX7LOP1uAG1pMguo/ewb?= =?us-ascii?Q?D4bS27dn6gruX0FB1hUtqNPEPllxhjpwHgR1qFLk85zH2zWdqGh4+aiKeVzr?= =?us-ascii?Q?m7sKRDQ6Xbtzrbt2pKQaNne1dDCgvRJtjkjFr5Joi883N8BNnRXJpee0o5R0?= =?us-ascii?Q?aHcFhKxKC0krhNcHhv27C9g2HfXwwb6r/J5+X9HbI0j231VHsJHz1XLqZw1D?= =?us-ascii?Q?TEtc4su0GP6NYyjg7yvgdmFzvMOaM0AhH4ZltBrzd3La9ki0m0Nrd11ZnlXB?= =?us-ascii?Q?8V09bOWjFvHwO1f5brqYYFqCZrcqVribDABzaoF/h0GjWsM3HlTGZ8hZZ5AH?= =?us-ascii?Q?cPJfLIt590UTJpbLIgrlKmpD1jZ2UPZZpxLg/sN+9LRP9xpV7J6GDgwTYQrr?= =?us-ascii?Q?mFZz8r721UjhTAnMISdB1oSwHc3D9M6KGnfaXUEOH7tNU1C3awRou0+bSi7m?= =?us-ascii?Q?tePLowin13Wu/iD4yfQOZpgGMCShlQDACu2VxfXzqCKXndWuxo00EUsW/5WU?= =?us-ascii?Q?+SLkjIw+fjkGTU8uZqZnP/8fBDwwHEZWtTfhhs3bxKnQwR3HcW6NZ+/qsQwJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?HKyqDeCQrl95XoK+w0aSYcl2Ir0NqSwEgOiU7D5c73HIZuKxZa0kAMybFnZq?= =?us-ascii?Q?J5UXSRL5XLd0E8D7MkyMWaWIhT9hhmGI7uSTmfo3PbWk0T10UJmSfeqisz0Y?= =?us-ascii?Q?KqRpeMht8H2+KLao/exaSSga1oi9iz97lh7oridkcIpzuZjkoq2+Qi97weCn?= =?us-ascii?Q?U7MqFKp1cr1nf8+hhXQfCRAigdCltkGCE8CXUW/u9bLcw2gRDod8AXQOXH9Y?= =?us-ascii?Q?U6iFM5kWkJAqBlLZLJbqvIykdBa7KHlgDR+UHU+T?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SN4PR18MB4888E98AEAB9030633FD7921C4379SN4PR18MB4888namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: datacast.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN4PR18MB4888.namprd18.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0779b5a6-837c-47d3-8019-08dabb3dca5d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Oct 2022 12:45:28.8402 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: a07f70c7-0440-4b97-b25f-a93dca3f0980 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: NrhW2BxkGeMdKXiqBaQ/ctWziM0Bv+AwyfaxMnEXOVeZYpTiBBUzP567QNaGvSkoiVPZOp0NetOoT93Qgayejg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM4PR18MB4240 --_000_SN4PR18MB4888E98AEAB9030633FD7921C4379SN4PR18MB4888namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Article #4 ... That is all fine and dandy you say, but what if I have a high wing taildrag= ger with a welded steel tube fuselage, with lots of diagonal tubes on the b= ottom of the 4 frame. In other words no place or room to put a belly duct w= ith radiator without a major rework and redesign of the steel tube frame. T= he radiator (or radiators) have to go into the engine cowling. This natural= ly is a less than ideal location and can give you some dandy problems. The = drawing below shows wind-tunnel results on a front engine installation. [http://www.glasairproject.com/GlasairI/AirSig/CoolingSystems/cooling4/Figu= re22.gif] Everybody has at one time or another come across this cowling shape (Fig. 2= 2). Notice the split between the pressure and lift on the spinner! This is = one reason why you should have a good spinner bulkhead in front of the prop= eller. The forces on a large spinner can be substantial. Notice the lift on= the front part of the cowling which is trying to suck the front end open. = This is a good place for some exhaust louvers or openings for venting hot a= ir out of the engine compartment. Further back on the cowling and in front = of the windshield we have high pressure air. A good place to install an air= intake. That is exactly where most cars have the fresh air pickup. It is a= lso the place where Porsche and other sports cars pick up the cooling air f= orthe turbo intercooler. ________________________________ From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 8:14 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links Hi Le Roux, I think you'll be the first to try a top-mounted radiator on a = Rotary install. Generally and with reference to those Hans Meyer articles,= the pressure on top of the cowling is near zero or even negative until you= get really close to the windshield. I won't say it can't be done but it's= going to be tricky - you may need a fan and most likely will need a fan du= ring ground operations. Good luck - keep us posted ... Jeff ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 6:01 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: flyrotary Digest #5273 Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #5273 1) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Erik Snyman erik.snyman@bigpond.com" 2) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" 3) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" 4) Re: Radiator OPS / Lamar cooling book by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" 5) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" 6) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Chris Sargent cleesgt@gmail.com" 7) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" 8) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links by " 12348ung@gmail.com" 9) RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement by "Doug Lomheim rv9flyer13b@gmail.com" 10) Re: RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement by "Rob McMillan robmcmillanpls@gmail.com" This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to the FEED mode, E-mail to Send administrative queries to --_000_SN4PR18MB4888E98AEAB9030633FD7921C4379SN4PR18MB4888namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Article #4 ...

That is all fine and dandy you say, but what if= I have a high wing taildragger with a welded steel tube fuselage, with lot= s of diagonal tubes on the bottom of the 4 frame. In other words no place o= r room to put a belly duct with radiator without a major rework and redesign of the steel tube frame. The radiator = (or radiators) have to go into the engine cowling. This naturally is a less= than ideal location and can give you some dandy problems. The drawing belo= w shows wind-tunnel results on a front engine installation.

Everybody has at one time or another come acros= s this cowling shape (Fig. 22). Notice the split between the pressure and l= ift on the spinner! This is one reason why you should have a good spinner b= ulkhead in front of the propeller. The forces on a large spinner can be substantial. Notice the lift on the f= ront part of the cowling which is trying to suck the front end open. This i= s a good place for some exhaust louvers or openings for venting hot air out= of the engine compartment. Further back on the cowling and in front of the windshield we have high pressure a= ir. A good place to install an air intake. That is exactly where most cars = have the fresh air pickup. It is also the place where Porsche and other spo= rts cars pick up the cooling air forthe turbo intercooler.


From: Jeff Whaley <jwhal= ey@datacast.com>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 8:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Radiator OPS / Placement Links
 
Hi Le Roux, I think you'll be the first to try a top-mounted radiator on a = Rotary install.  Generally and with reference to those Hans Meyer arti= cles, the pressure on top of the cowling is near zero or even negative unti= l you get really close to the windshield.  I won't say it can't be done but it's going to be tricky - you may need a = fan and most likely will need a fan during ground operations. Good luck - k= eep us posted ... Jeff
From: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 6:01 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Subject: flyrotary Digest #5273
 
        Rotar= y motors in aircraft Digest #5273

 1) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Erik Snyman erik.snyman@bigpond.com" <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 2) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com= " <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 3) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com= " <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 4) Re: Radiator OPS / Lamar cooling book
    by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net>
 5) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net>
 6) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Chris Sargent cleesgt@gmail.com" <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net>
 7) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com= " <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
 8) Re: Radiator OPS / Placement Links
    by " 12348ung@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancair= online.net>
 9) RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement
    by "Doug Lomheim rv9flyer13b@gmail.com" <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net>
10) Re: RV-9A exhaust and Radiator Placement
    by "Rob McMillan robmcmillanpls@gmail.com" <= ;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to
  the mailing list <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>.
To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <flyrotary-off@lancaironline.net>
To switch to the FEED mode, E-mail to <flyrotary-feed@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Send administrative queries to  <flyrotary-request@lancaironline.ne= t>

--_000_SN4PR18MB4888E98AEAB9030633FD7921C4379SN4PR18MB4888namp_--