X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 178598 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 18:31:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.41; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id k4-20020a17090a5144b02901731c776526so1092433pjm.4 for ; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 15:31:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=PuSzvc2FYT3JC3FTTuG6f7E3gQvpq3zZmIA13TMTTII=; b=nEIgmUEGWeFh1S3OsjNm2VamwJaNIF/z86gVYExDISTch9tHCaqG/JEnTJkjBlq0wk Ev8ssnQRDDLBKFmqfYqJfscCtU5EwN+s4VVMyvfmVSJDxjMRRb/u0bYn/nkvP0hK+p6f wUehdiTlimWQfTukHLO81OGmy63gpCE638IMcoGrnLgNk0x7g9b2kbx1N8wHfsADAD+S dCvkk5DS9S6Vn0jJiJ3g7wXOaejW5FjO9GVQg3gf7b9TY8zzxI2ASIKBzAOFIpeIOgqS bQujlPqazo6+U562+k9tMGRqheOzgu7r17riDWPXa2hBBDvEzYiTbyLU3XOiexeJp2bW N4UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=PuSzvc2FYT3JC3FTTuG6f7E3gQvpq3zZmIA13TMTTII=; b=e7hb7lm0OFTRIUgdWXSJlA1j0qTGbR93MvZNVDLP8hyARp5zzG6NM+hqgANV52Fy7T aZ9cRoCCfNfQkXzckokLzThH1aM/DqTCRHuY6fScRrJ3FpHNqvwcRLl5KzzzBOF4YdBG CF3HVlb/ZE6mLlks2hqwO8a04YWW/qi1UwXyWRo9ev1iTHRJ3crBAAK2qbOYTphggRcz HZyGJ/50lgawfz7ZK7EiTRLMq8gmv4dpCY+QXoJU7ndQnYCsM7z33qtKyQgcrSeVnZME f6EI/gFvPjdqQdsV3cD4IKw697rI3EkTWy3vGuwzBgStH9a5PrW7b7/VQOra+g2i2/ZO EIyg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533+EekMNT4H9JzLG70F9PfobvVDmdY+QamWEN75t+k/XjLZprhi OXlL6RnHF6g1eBSm84qexp2mdIdKVlI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzB4XyRudNgGU1XgGAGasCuVl+6Bnk0NRoIR4FkUmHMyLj/dFnA1iMVpyufnUbe/G0j92CvkA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:3489:: with SMTP id p9mr1073357pjb.197.1627943500845; Mon, 02 Aug 2021 15:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c16sm13141752pfb.196.2021.08.02.15.31.38 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 02 Aug 2021 15:31:40 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 08:31:37 +1000 Message-ID: <001a01d787ee$2949d630$7bdd8290$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01D78841.FAF85730" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEvko7SbKtp2gFLI0u6CP488xqeYqywtU6A Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01D78841.FAF85730 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Dave, Only the MAP screen came through your email. = I bought a 10K trimpot as this one had a dial from 1 =E2=80=93 100 % and = was only one turn Like Tracy=E2=80=99s. Most were up to 10 turns and in = boxes of 100. =20 Still fibreglassing =E2=80=93 again, exhaust muffler mounted in the = breeze to keep engine compartment less congested and cooler. Hopefully = another week I can start hooking up the Fueltech again. With most = things =E2=80=9Cshifted=E2=80=9D I will almost have to start from = scratch. =20 Neil =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 8:13 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 I think just about any will work. The EC2 uses a 5K ohm, so I am using = that with the Fueltech too, but anything that can return a voltage 0-5V = should work. =20 =20 Dave Leonard =20 On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 3:07 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > = wrote: Bobby, I believe so, Now at the risk of sounding stupid = (which I am), just what size OHM trimpot is required? Does it make any = difference? Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 11:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 Neil, =20 If I understand correctly it=E2=80=99s the same methodology. Main fuel = table is based on MP. Secondary fuel table is based to TPS. Trim pot is = used in place of TPS. Tune with the trim pot at the 50% setting and = provide a smooth fuel transition for rich or lean within a percentage = you are comfortable with.=20 =20 Bobby =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 Dave and Bobby, Below is response from my bloke in OZ = who is the expert in Fueltech. So looks like I now just need the trim = knob and not the TPS. What do you think? Neil. =20 From: Nathaniel @ FuelTech >=20 Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 9:44 AM To: 12348ung@gmail.com =20 Subject: Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 Hey Neil =20 The way they have done it on the microsquirt is to really overcomplicate = something that doesn't need to be done. The way that was mentioned first = is going to be the easiest way to do it. =20 We make a main fuel table that is based off the manifold vacuum/boost, = then apply a % correction based off the TPS. Which in this case will = just be a trim knob. The good thing as well is we can have fuel = enrichment based off manifold pressure change which will allow for the = change in throttle if there is ever enough of a change that it requires = extra enrichment. This is all delta changes, so if manifold vacuum/boost = changes in a slow manner then there is no need for extra fuel, but if = the delta is high because of a rapid change it will compensate. =20 So I would do as suggest and fit the trim knob and wire it to the ECU as = a TPS =20 Nathaniel --------------------- FuelTech USA 455 Wilbanks Dr. Ball Ground, GA 30107 =20 Toll Free: 855-595-3835 Alt Phone: 678-493-FUEL (3835) = = =20 =20 =20 : =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 8:25 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 Dave, =20 Last year a purchased a Microsquirt to play with on the bench. I managed = to get a working manual mixture control. It uses two blended fuel = tables. The Fueltech may have a similar way to modify the fuel formula. = I like the build in screen of the Fueltech.=20 =20 =20 VE1 =E2=80=93 Speed Density =E2=80=93 Primary Fuel Load VE2 =E2=80=93 Alpha =E2=80=93N - Secondary Fuel Load - 10K trim pot = (all tuning done at 50% TBS position / center of trim pot) Secondary fuel - multiplicative Multiply MAP =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t multiply =20 VE2 =E2=80=93 test values. TPS position moves vertically within the = column. =20 =20 Bobby =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 5:14 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 No, the EC2 does not use a TPS and I don't have one mounted. A TPS is = not really necessary in aviation use because we don't have a lot of big = rapid throttle changes or throttle-RPM mismatch situations. =20 This is the TPS adjustment table that I am going to try to start with. = Fine adjustment in the middle and larger adjustments at the extremes of = travel on the knob. Super easy to change the table based on what I find = works best. =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 2:32 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Dave, you are a cunning boy! Do you still use one on the throttle, I = suspect not? =20 Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2021 1:30 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech =20 The fueltech has a programmable mixture table table to be used with a = throttle position sensor(TPS) which is simply a potentiometer. So = simply mount a potentiometer, tell the fueltech it is a TPS, and adjust = the TPS mixture adjustment map to your liking. There you have a manual = mixture knob. =20 In fact, the EC-2's Control board returns the voltage of its 5K ohm = potentiometer so I hope to simply use that one which is already mounted. =20 It is also possible to use the micro switches in the EC2's control = module to activate almost anything you want through the fueltech. =20 Dave Leonard =20 On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 2:53 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Jeff, Yes it does and also mandatory is a throttle position = sensor. But no it does not have a manual mixture knob. For that reason if = needed thew only current answer is the SDS. =20 Neil. -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 10:47 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel Tech Hi Neil, does the Fuel Tech allow for open-loop operation like the EC2? Does it also work without a Mass Airflow Sensor like the EC2? Jeff Sent from my BlackBerryR phone powered by Koodo MobileR. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is = confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others = authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in = relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and = may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been = automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a = Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for = your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and = compliance. To find out more Click Here = . ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01D78841.FAF85730 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks = Dave,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Only the MAP screen came through your =C2=A0email.=C2=A0 = I bought a 10K trimpot as this one had a dial from 1 =E2=80=93 100 % and = was only one turn Like Tracy=E2=80=99s.=C2=A0 Most were up to 10 turns = and in boxes of 100. =C2=A0

Still fibreglassing =E2=80=93 = again, exhaust muffler mounted in the breeze to keep engine compartment = less congested and cooler.=C2=A0 Hopefully another week I can start = hooking up the Fueltech again.=C2=A0 With most things = =E2=80=9Cshifted=E2=80=9D I will almost have to start from = scratch.=C2=A0

Neil

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 3, = 2021 8:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech

 

I think = just about any will work.  The EC2 uses a 5K ohm, so I am using = that with the Fueltech too, but anything that can return a voltage 0-5V = should work.  

 

Dave Leonard

 

Bobby,

          =          I believe so, Now at = the risk of sounding stupid (which I am), just what size OHM trimpot is = required?  Does it make any difference?

Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Monday, August 2, 2021 11:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: FW: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = Tech

 <= /o:p>

Neil,

 

If I understand correctly it=E2=80=99s the same = methodology. Main fuel table is based on MP. Secondary fuel table is = based to TPS. Trim pot is used in place of  TPS. Tune with the trim = pot at the 50% setting and provide a smooth fuel transition for = rich  or lean within a percentage you are comfortable with. =

 

Bobby

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: FW: [FlyRotary] = Re: Fuel Tech

 <= /o:p>

Dave and Bobby,

          =             &= nbsp;         Below is response = from my bloke in OZ who is the expert in Fueltech.  So looks like I = now just need the trim knob and not the TPS.  What do you = think?

          =        Neil.

 

From:= Nathaniel @ FuelTech <nathaniel@fueltech.net>
Sent: = Friday, July 30, 2021 9:44 AM
To: 12348ung@gmail.com
Subject: Re: FW: = [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech

 <= /o:p>

Hey = Neil

 <= /o:p>

The way = they have done it on the microsquirt is to really overcomplicate = something that doesn't need to be done. The way that was mentioned first = is going to be the easiest way to do = it.

 <= /o:p>

We make a = main fuel table that is based off the manifold vacuum/boost, then apply = a % correction based off the TPS. Which in this case will just be a trim = knob. The good thing as well is we can have fuel enrichment based off = manifold pressure change which will allow for the change in throttle if = there is ever enough of a change that it requires extra enrichment. This = is all delta changes, so if manifold vacuum/boost changes in a slow = manner then there is no need for extra fuel, but if the delta is high = because of a rapid change it will = compensate.

 <= /o:p>

So I would = do as suggest and fit the trim knob and wire it to the ECU as a = TPS

 <= /o:p>

Nathaniel

=

---------------------<= o:p>

FuelTech = USA

455 Wilbanks = Dr.

Ball Ground, GA = 30107

 

Toll Free: = 855-595-3835

Alt Phone: = 678-493-FUEL (3835)

3D"Image3D"Image3D"Image3D"Image

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

:=

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Wednesday, July 28, 2021 8:25 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech

 <= /o:p>

Dave,

 

Last year a purchased a Microsquirt to play with = on the bench. I managed to get a working manual mixture control. It uses = two blended fuel tables. The Fueltech may have a similar way to modify = the fuel formula. I like the build in screen of the Fueltech. =

 

 

VE1 = =E2=80=93 Speed Density =E2=80=93 Primary Fuel Load

VE2 = =E2=80=93 Alpha =E2=80=93N   - Secondary Fuel Load - 10K trim = pot (all tuning done at 50% TBS position / = center of trim pot)

Secondary = fuel  - multiplicative

Multiply = MAP =E2=80=93 don=E2=80=99t multiply

 <= /o:p>

VE2 = =E2=80=93 test values. TPS position moves vertically within the = column.

 <= /o:p>

 

Bobby

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 5:14 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = Tech

 <= /o:p>

No, the EC2 = does not use a TPS and I don't have one mounted.  A TPS is not = really necessary in aviation use because we don't have a lot = of big rapid throttle changes or throttle-RPM mismatch = situations.

 <= /o:p>

This is the = TPS adjustment table that I am going to try to start with.  Fine = adjustment in the middle and larger adjustments at the extremes of = travel on the knob.  Super easy to change the table based on what I = find works best.

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

On Tue, Jul = 27, 2021 at 2:32 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Dave, you are a cunning boy!  Do you still use one on = the throttle, I suspect not? 

Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Wednesday, July 28, 2021 1:30 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Tech

 <= /o:p>

The = fueltech has a programmable mixture table table to be used with a = throttle position sensor(TPS) which is simply a potentiometer.  =  So simply mount a potentiometer, tell the fueltech it is a TPS, = and adjust the TPS mixture adjustment map to your liking.  There = you have a manual mixture knob.

 <= /o:p>

In fact, = the EC-2's Control board returns the voltage of its 5K ohm potentiometer = so I hope to simply use that one which is already = mounted.

 <= /o:p>

It is also = possible to use the micro switches in the EC2's control module to = activate almost anything you want through the = fueltech.

 <= /o:p>

Dave = Leonard

 <= /o:p>

On Mon, Jul = 26, 2021 at 2:53 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Jeff,
&nb= sp;              Yes it does and also = mandatory is a throttle position sensor.
But no it does not have a = manual mixture knob.  For that reason if needed
thew only = current answer is the SDS. 
Neil.

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, = July 26, 2021 10:47 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Fuel Tech

Hi Neil, does the Fuel Tech allow for = open-loop operation like the EC2?
Does it also work without a Mass = Airflow Sensor like the EC2?   Jeff
Sent from my = BlackBerryR phone powered by Koodo MobileR.
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml


--
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Disclaimer

= The information contained in this communication from the sender is = confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others = authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in = relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and = may be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and = malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast = Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. = Providing a safer and more useful place for your human = generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To = find out more Click = Here.

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