X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f174.google.com ([209.85.214.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 40334 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 May 2021 00:13:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.174; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f174.google.com with SMTP id b7so9808246plg.0 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 21:13:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=F3xbEIA91AU8291pqXZR4UX4BMcIgjluDUDHbZvTwOQ=; b=JHzbj3I8gkv91v0V3usowrkCalAWYSG0KKa0DXIuf0mfiR9kLqGc96pAF1Y9axnUDI EHJkzixTp+fV0HbmJmHU93YscD/dju0yXt1NmoAPJ6bC3PpEFJ+U8oxqO7/YrUDB6W7I yk+2t7WtlSyoXr1dnND0n2+88jmdNSfPDkzjq9EgMGK61Sff1j9WJ7QdZLJNBrLQO8KX nm3Q8TqqoJDxyFdn93embNOfJEgYG7ogm7vrcD/ZJl+qLlS9J/bY4pPYIVQzkaoWpha1 2S2oqvGBm9cpaOQbpw2y6GXSSbXm14sOgjJ64+7CCkcXP4nmaB+SI1jL/lHwQGYGc3TJ RIPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=F3xbEIA91AU8291pqXZR4UX4BMcIgjluDUDHbZvTwOQ=; b=YWGfiNW4on/s3BoRAmtScYyiZpYSnej7qwQLT9mv3yU7iEPF8URKnzuf46d962vXsn LPYdKdqmi+KMe1PRaL0VVxWEbZ7G+Pag8zbx9MBhkZ9N7fU1O0RmVoRzvYDdMxcBLJUT 6GmmsTZjpaBqExsD33J7ra5lxkbodNAqGlJZ1c0rXEPAE/5GdbQavEVjYB8lYclAH5Sf drYzW22CAo8InuoYkikDTI9fPhH4a1DoR/BfanzBB8j0gaK6L0Yk/1z4dgKjOSIVJPGy 2Qeui07PA76VyXK27bffivSV/epYHHDcoAt9OWHSRoEZBTAZ+Vk8pHoSsAZyN5ZzAhme v+pQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309YrO41qeEi4PvzF0HD6+/Achp2XwJsjHFm0QvpB/dMawx5dlM cQq1apt6eduXDjLYwdwI5B7egyNOZNA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzOjKXl6CyPHQLo/R8bT0CHGSQ/eABBlbB2CbDsE/ErGjRnZLkG1pbXvqA6YWD8FOMNOQy4VQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d793:: with SMTP id z19mr22601059pju.91.1621829591455; Sun, 23 May 2021 21:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from smtpclient.apple (220-235-95-91.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.235.95.91]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s12sm13607271pji.5.2021.05.23.21.13.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 23 May 2021 21:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CD4A9C13-B192-4B3D-904D-1C3D5C8072A7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.43\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] PSRU oil pressure Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 12:13:07 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7380BF8B-6218-4115-83D4-37B4AB0B7CA8@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.43) --Apple-Mail=_CD4A9C13-B192-4B3D-904D-1C3D5C8072A7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Steve B. Did the two drains of Tracy=E2=80=99s drive need to be enlarged in order = to upgrade to your recommended line size or are they already large = enough and require only larger fittings? My drain lines are rubber and I thought I might replace them during some = maintenance, and then add the breather when I next need to pull the = drive. Thanks. Steve Izett > On 24 May 2021, at 9:21 am, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu = wrote: >=20 > I enlarged the drain and installed a vent to try to address both heat = generation and internal pressurization. This greatly reduced the = internal pressure but no measurable decrease in heat generation was = observed. >=20 > Steve Boese >=20 > On May 23, 2021, at 6:24 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: >=20 >> =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please = exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from = external sources. >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Matt=20 >>=20 >> I wouldn=E2=80=99t imagine pressure is a contributing factor, however = the quantity of oil and churning losses generates heat. >> I found this study - "Experimental Investigations on Churning Power = Losses Generated in a Planetary Gear Set" = https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321990749_Experimental_Investigat= ions_on_Churning_Power_Losses_Generated_in_a_Planetary_Gear_Set = >> This study references the following further studies below: >> Is there SIGNIFICANT power loss or heat generation that can be easily = rectified by enlarging the drain and adding a breather? >> Could someone read summarise and present a conclusion =F0=9F=98=80 >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m guessing Steve B has already done this work. >> Steve, were you interested in losses and heat generation, or seal = problems associated with pressurisation, or both? >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Steve Izett >> Anderson, N.E., Loewenthal, S.H., Black, J.D., An analytical method = to predict efficiency of aircraft gearboxes, NASA TM-83716, USAAVSCOM TR = 84-C-8, (1984). >>=20 >> Boness, R.J., Churning losses of discs and gears running partially = submerged in oil, Proceedings of ASME International Power Transmission = Gearing Conference 1989, (1989) 355-359. >>=20 >> Changenet, C., Velex, P., A model for the prediction of churning = losses in geared transmissions =E2=80=93 preliminary results, J. = Mechanical Design, 129, 1 (2007) 128-133. >>=20 >> Changenet, C., Leprince, G., Ville, F., Velex, P., A note on flow = regimes and churning loss modeling, J. Mechanical Design, 133, 12 (2011) = 5p. >>=20 >> Durand de Gevigney, J., Ville, F., Changenet, C., Velex, P., Tooth = friction losses in internal gears: analytical formulation and = applications to planetary gears, Proc. IMechE Part J: J. Engineering = Tribology, 225, 5 (2013a) 476-485. >>=20 >> Durand de Gevigney, J., Changenet, C., Ville, F., Velex, P., = Becquerelle, S., Experimental investigation on no-load dependent power = losses in a planetary gear set, Proceedings of International Conference = on Gears 2013, (2013b) 1101-1112. >>=20 >> Ho=CC=88hn, B.R., Michaelis, K., Vo=CC=88llmer, T., Thermal rating of = gear drives: balance between power loss and heat dissipation, American = Gear Manufacturers Association Document, 96FTM8, (1996). >>=20 >> Kahraman, A., Hilty, D.R., Singh, A., An experimental study of spin = power losses of planetary gear sets, Proceedings of International Gear = Conference 2014, (2014) >>=20 >> Kolekar, A., Anant, S., et al., Windage and Churning Effects in = Dipped Lubrication, Journal of Tribology 136.2: 021801, (2014) >>=20 >> Krantz, T.L., Experimental and analytical evaluation of efficiency of = helicopter planetary stage, NASA TP-3063, AVSCOM TR 90-C-001, (1990). >>=20 >> Luke, P., Olver, A., A study of churning losses in dip-lubricated = spur gears, Proc. IMechE Part G: J. Aerospace Engineering, 213, (1999) = 337-346. >>=20 >> Macmillan, R.H., Power flow and loss in differential mechanisms, J. = Mechanical Engineering Science, 3, 1 (1961) 37- 41. >>=20 >> Pennestri, E., Freudenstein, F., The mechanical efficiency of = epicyclic gear trains, J. Mechanical Design, 115, 3 (1993) 645-651. >>=20 >> Radzimovsky, E.I., How to find efficiency, speed, and power in = planetary gear drives, Machine Design, 11, (1959) 144- 153. >>=20 >> Terekhov, A.S., Hydraulic losses in gearboxes with oil immersion, = Vestnik Mashinostroeniya, 55, 5 (1975) 13-17. Velex, P., Becquerelle, = S., Analysis of no-load dependent power losses in a planetary gear train = by using thermal network >>=20 >> method, Proceedings of International Gear Conference 2014, (2014), = 615-624. >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_CD4A9C13-B192-4B3D-904D-1C3D5C8072A7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks Steve B.

Did the two drains of Tracy=E2=80=99s drive need to be = enlarged in order to upgrade to your recommended line size or are they = already large enough and require only larger fittings?
My drain lines are rubber and I thought I might replace them = during some maintenance, and then add the breather when I next need to = pull the drive.

Thanks.

Steve Izett

On 24 May 2021, at 9:21 am, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I enlarged the drain and installed a vent to try to = address both heat generation and internal pressurization.  This = greatly reduced the internal pressure but no measurable decrease in heat = generation was observed.

Steve Boese

On May 23, 2021, at 6:24 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=E2=97=86 = This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution = when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.


Hi Matt 

I wouldn=E2=80=99t imagine pressure is a contributing = factor, however the quantity of oil and churning losses generates = heat.
I found this study - "Experimental Investigations on Churning = Power Losses Generated in a Planetary Gear Set" https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321990749_Experimental= _Investigations_on_Churning_Power_Losses_Generated_in_a_Planetary_Gear_Set=
This study references the following further studies = below:
Is there SIGNIFICANT power loss or heat generation that = can be easily rectified by enlarging the drain and adding a = breather?
Could someone read summarise and present a conclusion = =F0=9F=98=80

I=E2=80=99m guessing Steve B has already done this = work.
Steve, were you interested in losses and heat = generation, or seal problems associated with pressurisation, or = both?

Cheers

Steve Izett

Anderson, = N.E., Loewenthal, S.H., Black, J.D., An analytical method to predict = efficiency of aircraft gearboxes, NASA TM-83716, USAAVSCOM TR 84-C-8, = (1984).

Boness, R.J., Churning = losses of discs and gears running partially submerged in oil, = Proceedings of ASME International Power Transmission Gearing Conference = 1989, (1989) 355-359.

Changenet, C., = Velex, P., A model for the prediction of churning losses in geared = transmissions =E2=80=93 preliminary results, J. Mechanical Design, 129, = 1 (2007) 128-133.

Changenet, C., Leprince, = G., Ville, F., Velex, P., A note on flow regimes and churning loss = modeling, J. Mechanical Design, 133, 12 (2011) 5p.

Durand de Gevigney, J., = Ville, F., Changenet, C., Velex, P., Tooth friction losses in internal = gears: analytical formulation and applications to planetary gears, Proc. IMechE Part J: J. Engineering Tribology, 225, 5 (2013a) 476-485. =

Durand de Gevigney, J., = Changenet, C., Ville, F., Velex, P., Becquerelle, S., Experimental = investigation on no-load dependent power losses in a planetary gear set, = Proceedings of International Conference on Gears 2013, (2013b) 1101-1112. =

Ho=CC=88hn, B.R., = Michaelis, K., Vo=CC=88llmer, T., Thermal rating of gear drives: balance = between power loss and heat dissipation, American Gear Manufacturers = Association Document, 96FTM8, (1996).

Kahraman, A., = Hilty, D.R., Singh, A., An experimental study of spin power losses of = planetary gear sets, Proceedings of International Gear Conference 2014, = (2014)

Kolekar, A., Anant, S., et = al., Windage and Churning Effects in Dipped Lubrication, Journal of = Tribology 136.2: 021801, (2014)

Krantz, T.L., Experimental = and analytical evaluation of efficiency of helicopter planetary stage, = NASA TP-3063, AVSCOM TR 90-C-001, (1990).

Luke, P., Olver, A., A = study of churning losses in dip-lubricated spur gears, Proc. IMechE Part = G: J. Aerospace Engineering, 213, (1999) 337-346.

Macmillan, R.H., Power flow = and loss in differential mechanisms, J. Mechanical Engineering Science, = 3, 1 (1961) 37- 41.

Pennestri, E., = Freudenstein, F., The mechanical efficiency of epicyclic gear trains, J. = Mechanical Design, 115, 3 (1993) 645-651.

Radzimovsky, E.I., How to = find efficiency, speed, and power in planetary gear drives, Machine = Design, 11, (1959) 144- 153.

Terekhov, A.S., Hydraulic = losses in gearboxes with oil immersion, Vestnik Mashinostroeniya, 55, 5 = (1975) 13-17. Velex, P., Becquerelle, S., Analysis of no-load dependent power losses in a planetary gear train by using thermal network =

method, Proceedings of = International Gear Conference 2014, (2014), 615-624.


= --Apple-Mail=_CD4A9C13-B192-4B3D-904D-1C3D5C8072A7--