X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pj1-f52.google.com ([209.85.216.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.5) with ESMTPS id 40021 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 23 May 2021 17:37:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.52; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pj1-f52.google.com with SMTP id k5so13709285pjj.1 for ; Sun, 23 May 2021 14:37:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=2sJyOB6AhoR6JU88+ydyk+HCrHNL/8/Qvk+wCktRbCw=; b=c4JcYHqQQoJxTWrGCHByR7leL37FH49bt0spcCPcfQJOZqiQQli328U526RTZmLB+6 4Zr3DwvwBYqyVwrhFkRXHZPIQUFFKGmhi9uR4Psiw03hw3SvDvmFA2588JFBc2Q8mBYZ lghSc6mscPeboBr5lylfYCnUD25Y87MD2yVjY52HrJ6V4qvhrFDPPM/RoXRB7ekqU14o 2Kagp0T2TsOMoBrH0yi/WxrOP/Ar82L1xNq66W/3gv+cNlYLaCQr7F4ZeVnpdZ5bYBXo iVXtwmZKN3KGeaSAsVLCkvJwkYLU7MDqPJYRI4olmOiKyDyuubcpVgr9tfbLpZ2Ua7lN 1Xjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=2sJyOB6AhoR6JU88+ydyk+HCrHNL/8/Qvk+wCktRbCw=; b=Ee7Qhqmuyu4wcQn2muofPsSLWjCZ5VMIdrYIP62zMyBNkUUKPcHlY4ALF1M+PsGI6G gfqpfOqfbNAexX4SY5Z+acdA1aBzYmiuwSoiajUCO2ns7ZMK/yQkRNSHDpkZsQVbkX5o jRivGaKMVVRjUw7L9/rUICEvhfNAOQXxGzGl/D7jPL4dD6oG+z19gtbzuzlYvBpAM49L TP/dDCsgX7LT1FyzEQTSibaZTUOctmPKIpmAMmM4yGieF2S13QGvgG5nFdqq4x8oef1w dTKGCwx5dT9DixAju+ji/bHXO+IcZG/C7o5vqIB3Z5kj+h3Tc7Di5jwJIeX68WlQYLr+ G5Nw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5305H/wZILXmnT2kfSFWU1tuu8cZIiaDSnapEtPR369+LW7TeimT y8s5clkUj4pTMAhzr0nVxCniKnOQOnY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJywENCc7dA4GBHwqx9EC4Uhx5HBUMVf97cmr6c3+fRZMO2A0PES6t3zKEjFhZ8e0tusiVxNHQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:188f:: with SMTP id mn15mr21087510pjb.219.1621805859296; Sun, 23 May 2021 14:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z9sm6777416pji.47.2021.05.23.14.37.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 23 May 2021 14:37:38 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: PSRU oil pressure Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 07:37:35 +1000 Message-ID: <004801d7501b$da1b72d0$8e525870$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01D7506F.ABC9CCC0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHWpKN/dFWrjFQCoepNnUwapAYYpqry6aew Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01D7506F.ABC9CCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mat, The difference between my PSRU and tracy=E2=80=99s is = in mine, the prop shaft is running on oil fed timken taper bearings = which are designed to take end thrust. The oil return at the front was = to ensure that oil got to the front bearing before returning to meet up = with the oil return from the rear of the redrive, and from there to the = sump. Tracy only has the one return from the rear as he only has to = lubricate the planetrys with a sealed bearing taking the prop loads at = the front, that requires no oil. Mine has a higher reduction which in hindsight I think = is not worth the extra cost. =20 That is the basic difference. Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 6:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fwd: PSRU oil pressure =20 I've always had a crankcase breather filter on the engine, but while I = was testing I wanted to see what kind of actual pressures were developed = inside the system. It was more a FYI. =20 I guess in my subject I should have clearly stated this is Neils PSRU = design. Waiting for Neil to chime in on the difference between his and = Tracy's PSRU, but the prop shaft bearings ride on Tapered Roller = Bearings. The oil inlet is on the front half with 1/4npt return on the = side. There is also a 3/8npt return on the bottom of the rear section. My whole post was basically saying, gravity return isn't enough. The = psru still gets pressurized even with the smallest of restriction. = Putting a vent line on top, turns into another pressured outlet for the = oil to return. Still, a vent line on top I'd recommend to help the = returns. I have a temperature prob in the PSRU. I could be wrong, but having the = psru gears pressurized would cause more heat? I'll see what the datas = shows. - Matt Boiteau =20 =20 On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:10 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com = > wrote: Ok, Here is my third comment. Yes you should absolutely vent your = crankcase. In addition to the stock vent located on the oil filler = neck, I also eventually installed an additional 1/2 in. vent. Both of = these lines go through an oil/air separator which is vented in the low = pressure slipstream and drained out the gear leg. And still it is not = perfect, but improved since the early hours. =20 As an aside, I can tell you that increased blow-by is usually the first = indication that I am due for an engine rebuild (among several other more = imminent indications like a sudden loss of power). I recommend keeping = track of blow-by (how much oil is caught by the oil air separator). If = you start getting a lot of oil in the can, you will need a rebuild soon. =20 Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 =20 =20 On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 6:19 AM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = > wrote: I played around the past few days with oil and psru. I added a psi gauge = on top of psru,and vented the housing back to the oil dipstick tube. I = have an oil breather tube from the fill port. We should have a vent on = the oil crankcase. Without it, I did a pull and turned off the engine = and 5psi stayed within the system until I cracked open the dipstick to = relieve the pressure. On Neil's PSRU, the oil inlet is on the front half. The front drain is = on the side, which connects to the back drain that is an10, then to the = oil pan. Anyways, the stock psru inlet restrictor was 9/64. Once warmed up and = running at 2200rpm static on the ground, engine oil is about 100psi for = me. PSRU pressure was about 2.5psi and lots of oil was venting back into = the oil dipstick tube. I kept on sizing down the restrictor until = 1/16th. That mostly kept the vent clean and clear of any pressure build = up inside the psru. I'm not sure why Tracy recommends having the psru fuel of oil, maybe = uses different bearings then Neil's? From a truck gear case perspective, = plantey gears only need a coating of oil, not full and pressurized. I'm = probably wrong, but throwing it out there. ?.? - Matt Boiteau -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01D7506F.ABC9CCC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mat,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The difference between my = PSRU and tracy=E2=80=99s is in mine, the prop shaft is running on oil = fed timken taper bearings which are designed to take end thrust.=C2=A0 = The oil return at the front was to ensure that oil got to the front = bearing before returning to meet up with the oil return from the rear of = the redrive, and from there to the sump.=C2=A0 Tracy only has the one = return from the rear as he only has to lubricate the planetrys with a = sealed bearing taking the prop loads at the front, that requires no = oil.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mine has a higher reduction which in = hindsight I think is not worth the extra cost.=C2=A0 =

That is = the basic difference.

Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, May 24, = 2021 6:53 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fwd: PSRU oil pressure

 

I've = always had a crankcase breather filter on the engine, but while I was = testing I wanted to see what kind of actual pressures were developed = inside the system. It was more a FYI.

 

I = guess in my subject I should have clearly stated this is Neils PSRU = design. Waiting for Neil to chime in on the difference between his and = Tracy's PSRU, but the prop shaft bearings ride on Tapered Roller = Bearings. The oil inlet is on the front half with 1/4npt return on the = side. There is also a 3/8npt return on the bottom of the rear = section.

My whole post was basically saying, gravity return isn't = enough. The psru still gets pressurized even with the smallest of = restriction. Putting a vent line on top, turns into another pressured = outlet for the oil to return. Still, a vent line on top I'd recommend to = help the returns.

I have a temperature prob in the PSRU. I = could be wrong, but having the psru gears pressurized would cause more = heat? I'll see what the datas shows.

- Matt = Boiteau

 

 

On = Sat, May 22, 2021 at 12:10 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Ok, = Here is my third comment.  Yes you should absolutely vent your = crankcase.  In addition to the stock vent located on the oil filler = neck, I also eventually installed an additional 1/2 in. vent.  Both = of these lines go through an oil/air separator which is vented in = the low pressure slipstream and drained out the gear leg.  And = still it is not perfect, but improved since the early = hours.

 

I played around the past few days with oil and psru. I = added a psi gauge on top of psru,and vented the housing back to the oil = dipstick tube. I have an oil breather tube from the fill port. We should = have a vent on the oil crankcase. Without it, I did a pull and turned = off the engine and 5psi stayed within the system until I cracked open = the dipstick to relieve the pressure.


On Neil's PSRU, the oil inlet is on the front = half. The front drain is on the side, which connects to the back drain = that is an10, then to the oil pan.

Anyways, the stock psru inlet = restrictor was 9/64. Once warmed up and running at 2200rpm static on the = ground, engine oil is about 100psi for me. PSRU pressure was about = 2.5psi and lots of oil was venting back into the oil dipstick tube. I = kept on sizing down the restrictor until 1/16th. That mostly kept = the vent clean and clear of any pressure build up inside the = psru.


I'm not sure why Tracy = recommends having the psru fuel of oil, maybe uses different = bearings then Neil's? From a truck gear case perspective, plantey gears = only need a coating of oil, not full and pressurized. I'm probably = wrong, but throwing it out there. ?.?


- Matt = Boiteau

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