X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "William Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lj1-f174.google.com ([209.85.208.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1479247 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 May 2021 13:44:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.174; envelope-from=wschertz343@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-f174.google.com with SMTP id o16so12255859ljp.3 for ; Tue, 04 May 2021 10:44:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fnZTWJslSiDbCVrYR7f8FWjgpgAGSkyNqhULDa0w5QI=; b=n/fR3YW4JaySKfbIuZjNhuRMRJhj4oQ1yM3UN0SPHLH2FL+lVGSla/arR6gsbi73S1 VQ6W7bIcZvIMUg/ZwXRFdNO7Ya9F0JnfkvmVKGM5DxpQrIBlSVeomdv43rAxciGJlCFb 8Qkz678SYd1LqDRx2g1hUWz6dnuJ8Fmlg5zDtLRiIoQ639u1asYE3IQExSBNzppVUA5B Fgq73Z8UCWnRRojFpx9iLuO8uJmtAguNZty89mAIfl5ygl5YgCeuT1MBC2eQefEv/ZtA cvJ/LU9OrFpq4Npk0Sw+G5s9PFJRd+kbemcidGzc/p+n/JLr5gfx6pG9TP1gD2NF+54t CUZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=fnZTWJslSiDbCVrYR7f8FWjgpgAGSkyNqhULDa0w5QI=; b=iBznDfxm+DT/hQmua1BXfDyVtFsCg2xksNzyBgOT+cecRzl9PEGFozx/YX5vRCRCPi kWYe1tfai4AfUwSu6wUj7ojB55Xh94YeSUha8+CFl1i+JxPKCdgt9KOqsEMIHQ+5bHn4 L+2zzTtcF6L4tfnEG+2HJ8PWQCPuu8TOvLNQvX/sWMpiPc1xSB5JhmGnHi2+HAJshPl3 jns1SYfc16JNEmkBGO5KvbTlCheULNy7nVFcGBGJcLkH8muvmrQ4dAe9UTrFsvNLp9oA ZSXWkiDJbvEewcjkzZivVacBCFeBiTelDUhorzN8S5ZW86isQR8DilyfOL0TgVpU317M ylZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53324FeyExwrv+o2y7Y4lkIDdjWEs06RG0L4kNH8Nx8BNR6/3rar IkcMNvsdQwGvx0QZHcgwHRK3ragDdpgi18he92QJxKHC X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyR/GMNFLa6EhlB6Z2lKyZs8VYMtIBDDy8Sq0mZjVukvUGiXmEFBNjp6SO66WUtB4ErKdRCz+okl/cVMkomBQQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8511:: with SMTP id j17mr6792671lji.415.1620150260676; Tue, 04 May 2021 10:44:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 May 2021 11:44:03 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis secondary injectors To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000c54fe505c184a0ca" --000000000000c54fe505c184a0ca Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c54fe405c184a0c9" --000000000000c54fe405c184a0c9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Finn No rx-8 injector experience, but if at the staging point, if the EC-2-3 shuts off the primary injectors, and the secondaries haven't opened, fuel out of the manifold decreases, so the pumps would raise the pressure. Are you confident that the controller is reducing the primaries and starting the secondaries at the same time? Bill On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 11:07 AM Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Is the fuel pressure really increasing or is it the EM2/3 reading? Steve > B. has posted good advice for tuning around the staging point with > different size injectors. > > > > Bobby > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 04, 2021 11:46 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Renesis secondary injectors > > > > I noticed that my indicated fuel consumption appeared to be about 50% > higher than actual. > > So I decided to start calibrating engine monitor fuel flow. > > The first step is to check/adjust fuel flow around the staging point > (20"Hg) where the secondary injectors open (secondary injectors are larger > than primary injectors on the 4-port Renesis). > > I thought I had previously tuned the engine for a smooth transition around > the staging point, at least to the point when I didn't notice anything when > dvancing throttle through the staging point. > > However, now doing stationary run ups around the staging point (especially > when engine is getting hot) I get the weird phenomenon of it going very > lean when secondary injectors (supposedly) open. Another odd thing is that > fuel pressure* in*creases markedly. > > On the HomebuiltAirplanes.com forum a guy that raced RV-8s for a couple of > seasons mentioned troubles with the stock Renesis injectors. > > Now I'm wondering if I have (intermittently) bad secondary injectors -- > not opening when they should. > > However, I'm confused by the rise in fuel pressure. Is there a injector > failure mode where pressure in intake runners could push back through the > injector into the fuel line? > > Note that these are factory-new, maybe 10 to 20 hours of total engine run > (or attempted run) time. > > Another possibility is heated secondary fuel rail. But if there were > boiling fuel there the fuel pressure should still drop when secondary > injectors open... > > I tried to look but didn't find a chart of 87 octane 10% ethanol boiling > point vs temperature. > > Anybody here had any trouble with stock Renesis injectors? Symptoms? Other > ideas? > > Finn > > RX-8 4-port: > Primary: Denso 195500-4430 33.3 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi (350cc/min) 13.8 > ohm > Secondary: Denso 195500-4460 51.4 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi (540cc/min) 13.8 > ohm > > > > > ------------------------------ > > [image: Image removed by sender. Avast logo] > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > > > > *Disclaimer* > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others > authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in > relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may > be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been > automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an innovator in Software as a > Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a *safer* and *more useful* place > for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and > compliance. To find out more Click Here > . > --000000000000c54fe405c184a0c9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Finn
No rx-8 injector experience, but if at the stagin= g point, if the EC-2-3 shuts off the primary injectors, and the secondaries= haven't opened, fuel out of the manifold decreases, so the pumps would= raise the pressure. Are you confident that the controller is reducing the = primaries and starting the secondaries at the same time?
Bill

On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 11:07 AM Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Is the fuel pressure really increasing or is= it the EM2/3 reading?=C2=A0 Steve B. has posted good advice for tuning aro= und the staging point with different size injectors.

=C2=A0

Bobby

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2021 11:46 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Renesis secondary injectors

=C2=A0

I noticed that my indicated fuel consumption appeared to be about 50% hi= gher than actual.

So I decided to start calibrating engine monitor fuel flow.

The first step is to check/adjust fuel flow around the staging point (20= "Hg) where the secondary injectors open (secondary injectors are large= r than primary injectors on the 4-port Renesis).

I thought I had previously tuned the engine for a smooth transition arou= nd the staging point, at least to the point when I didn't notice anythi= ng when dvancing throttle through the staging point.

However, now doing stationary run ups around the staging point (especial= ly when engine is getting hot) I get the weird phenomenon of it going very = lean when secondary injectors (supposedly) open. Another odd thing is that = fuel pressure increases markedly.

On the HomebuiltAirplanes.com forum a guy that raced RV-8s for a couple = of seasons mentioned troubles with the stock Renesis injectors.

Now I'm wondering if I have (intermittently) bad secondary injectors= -- not opening when they should.

However, I'm confused by the rise in fuel pressure. Is there a injec= tor failure mode where pressure in intake runners could push back through t= he injector into the fuel line?

Note that these are factory-new, maybe 10 to 20 hours of total engine ru= n (or attempted run) time.

Another possibility is heated secondary fuel rail. But if there were boi= ling fuel there the fuel pressure should still drop when secondary injector= s open...

I tried to look but didn't find a chart of 87 octane 10% ethanol boi= ling point vs temperature.

Anybody here had any trouble with stock Renesis injectors? Symptoms? Oth= er ideas?

Finn

RX-8 4-port:
Primary: Denso 195500-4430=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 33.3 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi (350cc/m= in)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 13.8 ohm
Secondary: Denso 195500-4460=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 51.4 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi (540cc= /min)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 13.8 ohm

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

3D"I=

This = email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com=





Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from th= e sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient an= d others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are he= reby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action i= n relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and m= ay be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware,= and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innova= tor in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer= and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing = in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here.

--000000000000c54fe405c184a0c9-- --000000000000c54fe505c184a0ca Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="~WRD000.jpg" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="~WRD000.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <1793877fc35a30f8d381> X-Attachment-Id: 1793877fc35a30f8d381 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABkAGQDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3+iii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigD//2Q== --000000000000c54fe505c184a0ca--