X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Sboese sboese@uwyo.edu" Received: from [52.100.165.240] (HELO NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1467184 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 11:50:41 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=52.100.165.240; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ToE35zH80IUJE7gHY4VGGni+ct0ki8EpqClcBFcWDd/6uR82tbp9m7+f1Ozg93EiVcO6YxHYvomKy7dgz8oDwVhyY+fb1u1JUPd9PKaCubmXCyk8/roWZRvYJErkTVrDDL2HYtz825+OZijtHsFIqRz+OuKzKgXfGa/hvC1GL1/WuyuMgh8JA1SutyOGvbTXPOEnfGyG1lWlOzAdu4cOeCu/KKAF6xrrIX/W8U/TCIJtJDLmW8ZttQ56Ds4ALj4HYo83EesXcxsNp2PvMp/Agwu74f/0VG/TtS5DupKEv+uzJQdE4tcljSHVH8/Cnuntlo9+OiJK8cizvh8vIcJDig== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NzyMvCWDRemDrhl4sGCirKPeIYgasNkuI2gtTFyLxlQ=; b=BLXPL9a8t8xfD7+ssqlGSLtZqQEJd5d54kJDFw3KkayFktFibgqlTkMptD0+urlVFxObA0mFVLTrZPFzEYlPA3P6Rw0Wmedf823Klm+S2ACwF/XaFWk4j7Ju/UnMJWso+V0dYmnuzXX5tT/I3XgY2+5G65luacs/3kqrf2kMngF1EzO88YnWiWuSSJIpyKS2VRXhc7XgPCm7XJL9jrSXTJULHd5nwuSRJcLKAyRxQ2+SKMkmLp3oXrk2LUubJ41KZclWjFyQ1GgZUu3UMdTd09ale4cqBpJeIN3Z9cGcUSFwCQF+WuGYhh/xkD7Z2dcUCBLwzDY/ho591LbNP84C0Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uwyo.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; dkim=pass header.d=uwyo.edu; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uwy.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-uwy-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=NzyMvCWDRemDrhl4sGCirKPeIYgasNkuI2gtTFyLxlQ=; b=skgxPDZEbYrcHl57t5G9opIiP0b/qb+QMhMv73BgwDO5RfnZrz2sVh3HmgHUiq/Ahz1w90WUc3xQwZcvZo2A3lRoxhBKf11tLowa/o1XOLNCj/BV/M8RxDaNAv7VZ3A6F8Ygr4gKfZdOpT2F2ZGDKWoMhmUtcqbM4b4wVZmmcgA= Authentication-Results: lancaironline.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;lancaironline.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) by CY4PR05MB3526.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4087.24; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:50:16 +0000 Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1e9:5b1:bad:1005]) by CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1e9:5b1:bad:1005%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4108.008; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:50:16 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-2436D0A0-5FFA-4808-A0A0-9074278DB9BC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU thrust bearing/washer Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 09:50:13 -0600 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18D70) X-Originating-IP: [98.127.84.85] X-ClientProxiedBy: CY4PR04CA0048.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:c6::34) To CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) Return-Path: sboese@uwyo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.3] (98.127.84.85) by CY4PR04CA0048.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:c6::34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4087.27 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:50:16 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: afeecddc-7a4a-47b3-48a7-08d90befa655 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CY4PR05MB3526: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8882; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(376002)(136003)(396003)(346002)(366004)(39850400004)(279900001)(36756003)(8936002)(166002)(66476007)(66946007)(186003)(83380400001)(26005)(75432002)(15974865002)(2906002)(33656002)(66556008)(430100009)(16526019)(86362001)(52116002)(6916009)(5660300002)(53546011)(2616005)(956004)(8676002)(16576012)(38100700002)(6486002)(38350700002)(966005)(786003)(478600001)(316002)(33964004)(6666004)(45980500001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1501; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: =?utf-8?B?N1BGdUVuejhlWnNkWEtCcDg2bDRQcFl5K0hNNGRDWDFtT1BQeG5ITHAyOXEx?= =?utf-8?B?eG9wVGdUb2xNZ2greFFnMkgwcVBIN3Rmd1FHOHdPTFBEZDV1WmswMmQ5S3ll?= =?utf-8?B?eHRGSXZhMWlURENscVkzbnc5SDllNlU1dTdlN1VLTWM5WFEyYmczcmlYa1la?= =?utf-8?B?azlMQWxhYmpCY2VrcWRoSlhxenFmMGF5ejhxakVpNWJqakJvakw5S1JVanVh?= =?utf-8?B?cHJUaXRNU0RERHhYNUpVTUxNeWtPZTJSNFMxb3BFRis4dHBYUzZQdURCUFd6?= =?utf-8?B?TEdaR0gzeXl5S001TjBYZjdDb1BZZU9vZ2p6Ti9nTFQzMWc2eGFwSEtJclJr?= =?utf-8?B?anZYamVKcWx5R0ltYzZqTy9VZStFNUZvd2Rpb0FHUHBxRHo0UlB0NWZSbDQ4?= =?utf-8?B?QnN0Um1ON1VsV09qYS9rMHI2dEtVWW5SYzNCQmk0NkVkQW5pTUpUSUFMSEgx?= =?utf-8?B?OEc0ekU2UWlzZlZKZEtoSWFLT3l1eHd4VzYrOEZCbm9nc0ZHU2VtVURnVnJo?= =?utf-8?B?bkoxMUJ1cVJVait4RVducEVOZDBhcVgwQVRNOUJjVzJTWnJyRWtReWhJU0ZJ?= =?utf-8?B?K0JIL0dXcjlmZFlFWlJobHdPTndhWkJlQlJzR2llSUJ6RHNVU24yVVo1MGVk?= =?utf-8?B?ZkN4aC9oOGRaOXkvUCszcnBKRGVTelltbE1Wa0lTSHo3dkticGM0dWY1M05C?= =?utf-8?B?VTluc3pLTk9RL2F3TGMwcndLV3dvZFQ1MTdTcXpyblBrQVIvZm1jdzAvV2VE?= =?utf-8?B?Y042U2NUMHl2R0gyNURzMzhkSWhrR2lMZkRudlB0NXpIMUxCMVlHVE02STZN?= =?utf-8?B?TE4xVE43SmdzZXNScVBvMit6RHB3UjNCemNlNkk2eUMvSjQrQkFpTEd4SWdu?= =?utf-8?B?UVRGc2NleGUvLy9OYlFMU3ErTUdLM3ZlVzJPd0pFVnA1NmRyb1Z5ampiWWQy?= =?utf-8?B?NGJRT3gySnMrdkhGbUFZYUxOUDlNTm56UHJhL3hXbmZ4RWRnTFJ0bDBYSlVS?= =?utf-8?B?TXZvcFJoZUdmNHhGaE80MEFERGJZN1VrZE84NG9CcXZQQ0srbytBdC9TSi8v?= =?utf-8?B?cE9YRXBmZmNGaVk1N3VCT21VWVNjYm9EWW5hQjNTR0JyNWxLb1M0bmFBS0ow?= =?utf-8?B?WlFibXc0ZG0vaTlka1VSK0Zjak8vaWMrTnM5dFhDdGEvWWtBZ0lPUDFZQmNn?= =?utf-8?B?aVFzVDE0dUdKM2hLbEUwSjFhZlFBcGJpcXpqc1BWQ2YzYStFdXFJN3Y1RkZN?= =?utf-8?B?ZmM5UFBGYXZxYWJNU2JwL0JzYlFiRGVZZlRTMEY4Mno4anpjRUFhWTVmN0Mr?= =?utf-8?B?UXQ2YXhUekNCNEMzNzN2ZjJHdkN6QXJFK1NqQ2JTMEpFZjlCUlR5UnYyUlBW?= =?utf-8?B?NUFtTGppaFcxRzdlOUNFWitIdE1oVGpFODNHSXdOeVdsZ0lueFpoSTNha3FJ?= =?utf-8?B?Wm9lSlN2M1FYRmNnNHVNMVljMEdpeVBmVlVpdGlCbDh6ZVR3TmJDQU9HaEJB?= =?utf-8?B?YndxdmZ1STVtSTJsNE5yUVdqeWVnK0N0Qkc2UVo5UXhPaFUwWWtTWGZVRDM3?= =?utf-8?B?Z0hKMUszVXpwRklnUFlmdFVhZjR6OEFFY2N3ampMUUJ0Y25vM1hIK01Jczl1?= =?utf-8?B?TmJwYkhSZm5kcDB4ZlRTV3d0WTFNbStHZkJ5SjkySWRrNnRnQjlCVVJpcjNT?= =?utf-8?B?UWdzNWJxTFNaNGkrWGZGMm9iNTZ3dDZpMFRnNXNKR2pMclNpaUphVzhHRXhL?= =?utf-8?Q?4wYO8t67aiqDbZIy1gCV36zYuesEYqMt3GMfHpa?= X-OriginatorOrg: uwyo.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: afeecddc-7a4a-47b3-48a7-08d90befa655 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2021 15:50:16.6731 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f9cdd7ad-825d-4601-8e9c-a325e02d52da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 4slZrDO2Xv8z+koMzFsuJ6fpTvLYNsNEKivHbyADHHf0OVki5max5+u+gh7h1rjX X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB3526 --Apple-Mail-2436D0A0-5FFA-4808-A0A0-9074278DB9BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Without enlarging the drain line, the internal pressure in the gearbox will b= e in the range of 2 to 4 psi and applied to the input shaft seal even with a= groove cut in the mount plate. Steve Boese > On Apr 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise c= aution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources. >=20 >=20 > For what it's worth, I had a leaking input shaft oil seal. Possibly from b= ad installation (bore badly scratched). > I tried to polish out scratches along the shaft (no clue how they came abo= ut), but still visible. > On Tracy's recommendation I cut a small groove in the mount plate to preve= nt any pressure build-up behind the input shaft thrust bearing. (The factory= groove in the input shaft, that supplies the thrust bearing with oil, varie= s from shaft to shaft and was not under Tracy's control.) =20 > I installed a double-lipped SK9862 oil seal. > So far no more leak! >=20 > But the point is that you can eliminate pressure build-up behind the thrus= t bearing that might want to force out the oil seal by cutting a small grove= in the mount plate, providing a path for the oil to return. >=20 > Hand cut with a dremel. Not pretty, really wanted it deeper than wide. >=20 > BTW, I'm using the mount plate from my old (crashed) RV-3. The one I got w= ith the drive from the Cozy-girls had starter position in wrong place and de= signed to bolt to a engine mount plate under the engine. >=20 > Finn >=20 >> On 4/30/2021 2:00 AM, Sboese sboese@uwyo.edu wrote: >> Neil, >>=20 >> With a -6 drain line to the crankcase, air that was initially inside the g= earbox is mixed with the oil and this mixture is forced out the drain by an e= qual volume of pure oil coming in. Eventually all the air is eliminated and= the gearbox is completely filled with oil. An RD (Tracy Crook) redrive fit= ted with a -10 (5/8=E2=80=9D) id drain and a vent from the upper part of the= redrive to the upper part of the crankcase will not fill up with oil and on= ly have crankcase pressure inside. >>=20 >> Steve Boese=20 >>=20 >>> On Apr 29, 2021, at 4:25 PM, flyrotary@lancaironline.net wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFMat, >>> Oil into the redrive is needed mainly for lubrication an= d also heat transfer. Very little is needed as lubrication needs little wit= h oils these days. It appears that In most cases the redrive actually fills= and does not drain readily. Why I do not know. This puts pressure on the s= eals back and front, which suggests it may be beneficial to hold both seals i= n with small screws to prevent them getting pushed out. Screws are good ins= urance as in flight a detached seal could ruin a good day. >>>=20 >>> Neil. >>>=20 >>> =20 >>>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =09 > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 > www.avast.com >=20 >=20 > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html --Apple-Mail-2436D0A0-5FFA-4808-A0A0-9074278DB9BC Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Without enlarging the drain line, the internal pres= sure in the gearbox will be in the range of 2 to 4 psi and applied to the i= nput shaft seal even with a groove cut in the mount plate.

Steve Boese


On Apr= 30, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

=E2=97=86 This message= was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking li= nks or opening attachments from external sources.


For what it's worth, I had a leaking input s= haft oil seal. Possibly from bad installation (bore badly scratched).
I tried to polish out scratches along the shaft (no clue how they came abou= t), but still visible.
On Tracy's recommendation I cut a small groove in the mount plate to preven= t any pressure build-up behind the input shaft thrust bearing. (The factory= groove in the input shaft, that supplies the thrust bearing with oil, vari= es from shaft to shaft and was not under Tracy's control.) 
I installed a double-lipped SK9862 oil seal.
So far no more leak!

But the point is that you can eliminate pressure build-up behind the thrust= bearing that might want to force out the oil seal by cutting a small grove= in the mount plate, providing a path for the oil to return.

Hand cut with a dremel. Not pretty, really wanted it deeper than wide.

BTW, I'm using the mount plate from my old (crashed) RV-3. The one I got wi= th the drive from the Cozy-girls had starter position in wrong place and de= signed to bolt to a engine mount plate under the engine.

Finn

On 4/30/2021 2:00 AM, Sboese sboese@uwyo.edu wrote:
Neil,

With a -6 drain line to the crankcase, air that was initially inside t= he gearbox is mixed with the oil and this mixture is forced out the drain b= y an equal volume of pure oil coming in.  Eventually all the air is el= iminated and the gearbox is completely filled with oil.  An RD (Tracy Crook) redrive fitted with a -10 (5/8= =E2=80=9D) id drain and a vent from the upper part of the redrive to the up= per part of the crankcase will not fill up with oil and only have crankcase= pressure inside.

Steve Boese 

On Apr 29, 2021, at 4:25 PM, flyrotary@lancaironline.net wrote:

=EF=BB=BFMat,

     &= nbsp;          Oil into the re= drive is needed mainly for lubrication and also heat transfer.  Very l= ittle is needed as lubrication needs little with oils these days.  It = appears that In most cases the redrive actually fills and does not drain readily.  Why I do not know.  This puts= pressure on the seals back and front, which suggests it may be beneficial = to hold both seals in with small screws to prevent them getting pushed out.=   Screws are good insurance as in flight a detached seal could ruin a good day.

Neil.

 




3D"Avast

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com


=
<Groove.jpg>
--
Homepage:  http:= //www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
= --Apple-Mail-2436D0A0-5FFA-4808-A0A0-9074278DB9BC--