X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=XpSExmN9 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CfGu4IuVbUFoEaFtTlJPvg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=3YhXtTcJ-WEA:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=5lucXWJGAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=pW8B2vQ6AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=6aJk38oll7IeEpkg94AA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=bHXl9ekXSN9fW1rlE5wA:9 a=PSEVnVaOPKohOrsJ:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=sIFWCFSNc_AA:10 a=LwX-U-nOfP1m2u8RUeUA:9 a=Hyr7ibVrZbSyE6gl:18 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=VEiTNn8F7TgA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=tjNemD4wtFR24VrVMQME:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=NM4QHZ20jVRG-2vQPwNQ:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=Ew2E2A-JSTLzCXPT_086:22 From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1464949 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 18:25:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.169; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id i14so3638883pgk.5 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 15:25:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=2isr0CrUaSXZIQ+JkrmtQ0y8p5vx4d9HTwmBF1l3jCo=; b=UB6zBGH2bWpikkCygn2nxep8Bdth4LdcMOoEKAS47StUdN0W6JHNuglf5xaN5zJRI/ slOv3IZUXzE6jndioclyCkDlnkPTXtSagYBVAGEVYIBCGBbLb5keWHBEkP0+ZSfWk3Bo a5D9Rv2O0mzVbTGS58Sm/rKjPd+SQ0sUtYeRLOJEteWY/Al7xwt5E8y+dRLO2FDsCw6F YtBYfoQflwEr5/M/px6dgLggn1P3XPTWBUzrD987SLenur4VJuqhMc8q+ocmMYH0EI4s uahzOgeT+ZLV2w8ICIHC04xJJQ7nKniDn2H1ZSUoycRRmHeN07BsDUgW1E3S3sbpTewb /Rcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=2isr0CrUaSXZIQ+JkrmtQ0y8p5vx4d9HTwmBF1l3jCo=; b=fFulC95IXOcfrlccbBWoKn3OIAWCff0Jd0HAgcFV2pb0orG4i+vawgt7gH88PTixHW S7Xb73V2V7LdSCXdqlUEbbRWhubyMWZEj2Uxt9bKWj4wZbidi6wcK8vPL8PTNZQpjXHe qiNSPvc/apEaV8+zgGnyQOAzH08dibb3DVWTVxZbtp0Zdhyhd+wgeYjlyPBIAVUaD5mC vKuV2w9ocdTH1tXwAe3e2KsbaILL1iblxYBfGqWTaPsgt16SrI2hajjBnNt9nVuWlWC3 dompiFD+LrJtoKVSpMU8KJ6HMI7pSGE89zJbEiPDagM9V2GR/8XaohNYtm7mIfrudleS oiNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531cvtuZWbFPNsMbS282Hj/XH9ClPk7blHzN/2hJWPcUFoHXyjlA VzKGfemxzw1lYdu1MOXMWY3vnlaJV3E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx748Eg+5kAUz5K3FwFSpcfEs1kzIYfZpxewWVrzMXj4gZzR0ez17KnYqGWDZY5IxLKGLrFBg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:4413:: with SMTP id r19mr1765152pga.75.1619735095773; Thu, 29 Apr 2021 15:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r63sm8878685pjg.46.2021.04.29.15.24.53 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 29 Apr 2021 15:24:55 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU thrust bearing/washer Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 08:24:52 +1000 Message-ID: <001701d73d46$7abb2890$703179b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01D73D9A.4C698280" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFpB4hwEFUNnnikgIKjyGQLiznLzKuoe+zA Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D73D9A.4C698280 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01D73D9A.4C698280" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01D73D9A.4C698280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mat, Oil into the redrive is needed mainly for lubrication = and also heat transfer. Very little is needed as lubrication needs = little with oils these days. It appears that In most cases the redrive = actually fills and does not drain readily. Why I do not know. This = puts pressure on the seals back and front, which suggests it may be = beneficial to hold both seals in with small screws to prevent them = getting pushed out. Screws are good insurance as in flight a detached = seal could ruin a good day. Neil. =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU thrust bearing/washer =20 Straight PTFE has a Durometer 50D-65D. I'll go with it. https://www.mcmaster.com/9266K82/ Prop I have is a 74" ground adjustable Sensenich. Pitched to 22degrees. = Static full power is 2200 while flying is 2600. With the 3.17 gearing, = engine RPM is 8250. Finn, I'm not sure, the restrictor is part of the fitting. Neil, can you = pipe in here? I won't say I know anything like Tracy and them do, but a = planetary gear, doesn't it only need a splash of oil for lub? - Matt Boiteau =20 =20 On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 7:38 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com = > wrote: Does 'glass filled' mean fiberglass? Any abrasive risk if the PTFE does = start to wear? Looks like they also have straight PTFE sheet stock, but = I didn't look at durometer. Are you running some monster 8' diameter prop with that ratio? Charlie On 4/28/2021 5:46 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = wrote: Squished / deformed is the verbage I used back in 2019 about it. I can't = seem to find any pictures on it, but I remember it being deformed up = pretty good. I've been battling issues in the past with the = vulcanization rubber of Neil's cushion drive was coming apart. I've put = on Tracey's Cushion drive in the meanwhile. Dry fitting everything (no oring and no snubber) with the input shaft = sitting all the way down on the prop shaft, I have 0.085" clearance. To = get the 5-10thou gap, I would need a snubber 0.075" - 0.080" thick. The = closest I can get is 1/16" thick, which is 0.0625. =20 I found this stuff for the snubber, high temp. Can cut out a washer from = it.=20 https://www.mcmaster.com/8636K11/ =20 There is a restrictor in the fitting going into the PSRU. I have a temp = gauge on the PSRU, and it stays consistent with the oil. I have parts to = add a PSI sensor to the back half of the PSRU to see if things are = draining okay. - Matt Boiteau =20 =20 On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:29 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com = > wrote: The confusing thing to me is how it got hot enough to melt nylon; over = 400 degrees F. That seems a lot hotter than than the shaft or bearings = should ever get.=20 =20 = =20 Virus-free. = = www.avast.com=20 =20 On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 3:13 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = > wrote: The end play was good. Metal ruler across and could just see daylight = across. =20 Neil's uses a rubber oring, so we test endplay without it. Then adding = the oring will add the nessessary clearance in end play. =20 The one Neil supplied was either nylon or Teflon flat washer and it = melted, so removed it. So talking with him, switched it out to the oil = embedded one. Again, just a flat washer. =20 Anyone have more details what Tracey used? Like a spring washer made out = of nylon? =20 =20 =20 =20 On Wed., Apr. 28, 2021, 14:16 Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = , > wrote: Too little or too much end play? Tracy specifies 0.005 to 0.035" Note that if you check it without RTV, it may increase when you assemble = it. Finn On 4/28/2021 1:05 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = wrote: I have one of Neil's 3.17 psru with Tracey's cushion drive. *I also sent = Neil an email but it's late in the night in Australia.=20 =20 After my fly off hours, tearing down the plane to inspect everything. = The Ultra-Low-Friction Oil-Embedded Thrust Bearing is broken into = pieces.=20 https://wwwmcmaster.com/7421K28/ =20 The nylon or teflon washer supplied just melted. I thought I nailed it = with a fix using the oil-embedded, but I guess not. I think in Tracey's documentation, he called it a snubber ? Any ideas = what I can use, or why this happens? - Matt Boiteau =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 _____ =20 =20 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 www.avast.com =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01D73D9A.4C698280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mat,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Oil into the redrive is needed mainly for = lubrication and also heat transfer.=C2=A0 Very little is needed as = lubrication needs little with oils these days.=C2=A0 It appears that In = most cases the redrive actually fills and does not drain readily.=C2=A0 = Why I do not know.=C2=A0 This puts pressure on the seals back and front, = which suggests it may be beneficial to hold both seals in with small = screws to prevent them getting pushed out.=C2=A0 Screws are good = insurance as in flight a detached seal could ruin a good = day.

Neil.

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 29, = 2021 1:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = PSRU thrust bearing/washer

 

Straight PTFE has a Durometer 50D-65D. I'll go with = it.

https://www.mcmaster.com/9266K= 82/

Prop I have is a 74" ground adjustable = Sensenich. Pitched to 22degrees. Static full power is 2200 while flying = is 2600. With the 3.17 gearing, engine RPM is 8250.

Finn, I'm not = sure, the restrictor is part of the fitting. Neil, can you pipe in here? = I won't say I know anything like Tracy and them do, but a = planetary gear, doesn't it only need a splash of oil for = lub?

- Matt = Boiteau

 

 

On = Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 7:38 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Squished / deformed is the verbage I used back in 2019 = about it. I can't seem to find any pictures on it, but I remember it = being deformed up pretty good. I've been battling issues in the = past with the vulcanization rubber of Neil's cushion drive was coming = apart. I've put on Tracey's Cushion drive in the meanwhile.

Dry = fitting everything (no oring and no snubber) with the input shaft = sitting all the way down on the prop shaft, I have 0.085" = clearance. To get the 5-10thou gap, I would need a snubber 0.075" - = 0.080" thick. The closest I can get is 1/16" thick, which = is 0.0625.

 

I = found this stuff for the snubber, high temp. Can cut out a washer from = it. 
https://www.mcmaster.com/8636K11/

 

There is a restrictor in the fitting going into the = PSRU. I have a temp gauge on the PSRU, and it stays consistent with the = oil. I have parts to add a PSI sensor to the back half of the PSRU to = see if things are draining okay.


- Matt = Boiteau

 

 

On = Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 5:29 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

The confusing thing = to me is how it got hot enough to melt nylon; over 400 degrees F. That = seems a lot hotter than than the shaft or bearings should ever = get. 

 

3D"Image

V= irus-free. www.avast.com =

 

On = Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 3:13 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

The end play was good. Metal ruler across and could = just see daylight across.

 

Neil's uses a rubber oring, so we test endplay without = it. Then adding the oring will add the nessessary clearance in end = play.

 

The one Neil supplied was either nylon or Teflon flat = washer and it melted, so removed it. So talking with him, switched it = out to the oil embedded one. Again, just a flat = washer.

 

Anyone have more details what Tracey used? Like a = spring washer made out of nylon?

 

 

 

 

On Wed., Apr. 28, 2021, 14:16 Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Too little or too much end play?

Tracy = specifies 0.005 to 0.035"

Note that if you check it without = RTV, it may increase when you assemble it.

Finn

On = 4/28/2021 1:05 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = wrote:

I have one of Neil's 3.17 psru with Tracey's cushion = drive. *I also sent Neil an email but it's late in the night in = Australia.

 

After my fly off hours, tearing down the plane to = inspect everything. The Ultra-Low-Friction Oil-Embedded Thrust Bearing = is broken into pieces. 

https://wwwmcmaster.com/7421K28/

The ny= lon or teflon washer supplied just melted. I thought I nailed it with a = fix using the oil-embedded, but I guess not.

I think in Tracey's = documentation, he called it a snubber ? Any ideas what I can use, or why = this happens?

- Matt = Boiteau

 

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Arch=
ive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h=
tml

 

3D"Image

This email has been checked for = viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com =



=

 

------=_NextPart_001_0019_01D73D9A.4C698280-- ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D73D9A.4C698280 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="~WRD0000.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <~WRD0000.jpg> /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCABkAGQDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD3+iii gAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKA CiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAK KKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAoo ooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigD//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01D73D9A.4C698280--