X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lj1-f172.google.com ([209.85.208.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1363294 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:47:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.172; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-f172.google.com with SMTP id o16so490239ljp.3 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:47:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XjuRZKrppYUz/PeVkDLNJd7TzQAKVBELiv8Dnf6QgEk=; b=e/OqHU+QXJDad/wAE+Wy+lygfYQMXJNaqW1kjMCuj8wcnV1rasfsMGR1jnE7T/44ly sse/dssqoOso4wJJJnOuufyE5qPpDrOz/RB3Gms0lpUfvbCG6O27zObUyEnfWsAZjVFw ZoJUR65XaRszoldM2zxBjMWOsTow8N/2vxINjNFAe/cEPTdNYi87TjyHRDd3Xih+Ac40 KV5ZE9Ef1nUPhOiFchEdi5UtqGROjF0ZtdyVCSaUARJjIwD5hz3vAZe7GZSnv6B+uPr/ 4x232rG9IE8xAfbsiTw1aAshUcmQzKU9bKqc3phaY7CQU9SJ384raH2gjeb8G3ZyvyVd zFDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=XjuRZKrppYUz/PeVkDLNJd7TzQAKVBELiv8Dnf6QgEk=; b=EP20ecevgAgExBiIjXI2wZ+eLct0Bb6g1galVIYBtnQKahWTCX3yq8iHvPKCRLJM7e HClzULrUU/Byt7dThHcGON8DxFhS3UCWPJhNjY1K3BaJ6K26NVkwdVgMCfGjr49xb4U0 ySfxZ1Tm9GpINlZh8xgIP0N8BDRPZP1pSHJI2Q2K/Yp937vRzZ/frCYTHuAnrNnZ2t9M JizoSVxCwIO2mvVHSt4zJUkSq2YUibX0cz+1xrFxI16qulwIjbQ17lsDp82EWxe5ngbr rkmLmkIuOUmXYxgS9TwU9ZRhy0c9zpMKdSTgZMXrGqGssKQD98X9IWNrdOHpFStRSUv0 yYXw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531ZQ+TJf4k+wq543rs57P2LOno8VNu5OM+pVzY21KC+7p/5NUfn 9voCJePsCj8kSy8LVp2V3idMolZZRZYrnsPiaFU5wrzQwdQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwq/g12pLrnAnC+uu/7xqBopSdhGEuxDX1lORVR8NdpknJAUJL6DMb/5enJ5WgfCSmJlBHpJM5+p1+upv7ZsAE= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9098:: with SMTP id l24mr3914614ljg.150.1617241646051; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:47:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:44:13 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: MISTRAL To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d4332305bedf69ba" --000000000000d4332305bedf69ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephen, Sorry for the delay in getting back with you about the "Mistral" intake runner lengths , etc............Be aware these numbers are approximate but in the ballpark............The runner lengths are approx centerline from the face of the 13B engine block to the throttle body..........Both the primary and secondary runners merge into a "V" shaped cast aluminum plenum which includes the throttle body.........The runner lengths are to the interior side of the throttle body..........The runners from cast aluminum intake manifold to cast plenum are thin wall aluminum tubing..........I do not have access to the ID of these but have OD only....... Primary Runner length approximately.........24 inches Primary Runner "OD" approximately..........1.40 inches Secondary Runner length approximately.....24 inches Secondary Runner "OD" approximately.......1.66 inches Throttle Body "ID" approximately..................2.85 inches Hope this helps, Kelly Troyer On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:08 PM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Thanks Kelly. If possible the ID of those runners as well please. > > > > On 16 Mar 2021, at 10:44 pm, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Steve, > > Bear with me but as soon as practicable I will do my best to measure > the intake length from engine face to face of the > > throttle body (plus ID of throttle body)............Yes the "Mistral" > engines are side intake ports............I believe (from memory) > > that they rated HP at 6500 rpm...........Still waiting on all the > "Mistral" documentation from the seller............ > > > > Best, > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:51 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Kelly > > Sounds really cool. Such a shame Mistral didn=E2=80=99t make it. > > I thought their engines were side port. I=E2=80=99d love to know the le= ngth of > the inlet from the engine face to the throttle body and the rpm that they > rate the 200hp. > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve Izett > > Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C > > > > > > > On 16 Mar 2021, at 9:59 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > > > Lee, > > > I ask because I recently became the proud owner of the final > iteration (Designed to be certified) "Mistral G200-C1B" 200hp > > > Rotary engine and I am just curious as to what apex seals they used > in them........Since "Mistral" seems to be out of business I > > > do not know where to get information (I have heard that the Chinese > bought them out)..............I do not need apex seals as the > > > engine only has about 10 flying hours on it.............. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Kelly Troyer > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:01 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > I did not. I was asked to travel about inspecting installations prior > to first flight, or to assist with installations. > > > But if asked I would have suggested Ceramic seals. > > > > > > We raced with Carbon seals and later, Ceramic seals. Carbons wear too > fast for aircraft use but are soft and leave the housing chrome looking > better than new as the years go by. No detectable wear at all. Near perfe= ct > sealing. No skipping, no need for an extra spring. > > > Same for Ceramics. Light weight. No wear. Very expensive. But if you > can use the same housings for 4 or 5 years, then not so bad. The duty > cycle of an aircraft engine is much tougher than that of a racer or stree= t > engine. > > > All early engines Had the wide carbon seals. We machined them down to > fit the later rotors. So early housings would often run well over 100,000 > miles. The iron seals with a chrome face have you running a chrome face > against a chrome housing. Bad Mojo. With Premixing and or oil injection n= ot > so bad. Hard starting suggests > > > worn apex seals. Both ceramic and carbon seals need to be sized to > the housing width. > > > Any question, any time. > > > Lynn E. Hanover > > > > > > message dated 3/14/2021 11:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > > > > > Lee Hanover, > > > I seem to remember that you had some interaction back in the day > with "MISTRAL" when they were developing their > > > Rotary engines .........If so did you ever hear what tip seals they > used in their engines ? (Iron , Ceramic , Etc)........... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -- > > > Kelly Troyer > > > > > > --000000000000d4332305bedf69ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stephen,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sorry for the d= elay in getting back with you about the "Mistral" intake runner l= engths , etc............Be aware these numbers are approximate but in the b= allpark............The runner lengths are approx centerline
from = the face of the 13B engine block to the throttle body..........Both the pri= mary and secondary runners merge into a "V" shaped cast aluminum = plenum which includes the throttle body.........The runner lengths=C2=A0
are to the interior side of the throttle body..........The runners = from cast aluminum intake manifold to cast plenum are thin wall=C2=A0alumin= um tubing..........I do not have access to the ID of these but have OD only= .......

Primary Runner length approximately.......= ..24 inches
Primary Runner "OD"=C2=A0 approximately....= ......1.40 inches
Secondary Runner length approximately.....24 in= ches
Secondary Runner "OD" approximately.......1.66 inc= hes
Throttle Body "ID" approximately..................2= .85 inches

=C2=A0 Hope this helps,
Kelly= Troyer


On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:08 PM Step= hen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.co= m <flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net> wrote:
Thanks Kelly. If possible the ID of those runners as well please= .


> On 16 Mar 2021, at 10:44 pm, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:
>
> Steve,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bear with me but as soon as practicable I will do my best = to measure the intake length from engine face to face of the
> throttle body (plus ID of throttle body)............Yes the "Mist= ral" engines are side intake ports............I believe (from memory)<= br> > that they rated HP at 6500 rpm...........Still waiting on all the &quo= t;Mistral" documentation from the seller............
>
> Best,
> Kelly Troyer
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 5:51 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net> wrote:
> Hi Kelly
> Sounds really cool. Such a shame Mistral didn=E2=80=99t make it.
> I thought their engines were side port. I=E2=80=99d love to know the l= ength of the inlet from the engine face to the throttle body and the rpm th= at they rate the 200hp.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve Izett
> Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C
>
>
> > On 16 Mar 2021, at 9:59 am, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > Lee,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I ask because I recently became the pro= ud owner of the final iteration (Designed to be certified)=C2=A0 "Mist= ral G200-C1B" 200hp
> > Rotary engine=C2=A0 and I am just curious as to what apex seals t= hey used in them........Since "Mistral" seems to be out of busine= ss I
> > do not know where to get information (I have heard that the Chine= se bought them out)..............I do not need apex seals as the
> > engine only has about 10 flying hours on it..............
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kelly Troyer
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 6:01 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:
> > I did not. I was asked to travel about inspecting installations p= rior to first flight, or to assist with installations.
> > But=C2=A0 if asked I would have suggested Ceramic=C2=A0 seals. > >=C2=A0
> > We raced with Carbon seals and later, Ceramic seals. Carbons wear= too fast for aircraft use but are soft and leave the housing chrome lookin= g better than new as the years go by. No detectable wear at all. Near perfe= ct sealing.=C2=A0 No skipping, no need for an extra spring.
> > Same for Ceramics. Light weight. No wear. Very expensive. But if = you can use the same housings for 4 or 5 years, then not so bad.=C2=A0 The = duty cycle of an aircraft engine is much tougher than that of a racer or st= reet engine.=C2=A0
> > All early engines Had the wide carbon seals. We machined them dow= n to fit the later rotors. So early housings would often run well over 100,= 000 miles.=C2=A0 The iron seals with a chrome face have you running a chrom= e face against a chrome housing. Bad Mojo. With Premixing and or oil inject= ion not so bad. Hard starting suggests
> > worn apex seals.=C2=A0 Both ceramic and carbon seals need to be s= ized to the housing width.
> > Any question, any time.
> > Lynn E. Hanover
> >=C2=A0
> >=C2=A0 message dated 3/14/2021 11:29:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, = flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes:
> >=C2=A0
> > Lee Hanover,
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I seem to remember that you had some interacti= on back in the day with "MISTRAL" when they were developing their=
> > Rotary engines .........If so did you ever hear what tip seals th= ey used in their engines ? (Iron , Ceramic , Etc)...........
> >=C2=A0
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Kelly Troyer
>



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