X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Sboese sboese@uwyo.edu" Received: from [52.100.171.208] (HELO NAM11-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1326759 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 16:26:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=52.100.171.208; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=AMvQ99Nx6I5bpnrlx0SK8Mla4/+C0ZqOef5jgpEUYzv1cTvN4eNFl1S42NdDrHX8eGMbqX0QDUOpt7WyhwSD+wF4V3VMV7kpm7bUXTM72V+P1sxUmcHM8xDR0/CsXCzWE0HrCRyHpJwuZ2lIRUK/xDd6uSRSU/qCLeErLHq/Pue9EqL60B2ceBud8i1cVfuLhFCE5VfWv0rSvztIEnhGnwaarRzT8+OHJaJK1tAEjhlMTk5H0nD/L8fF3RgvLh2UmwtNSKYq0FvbW1C6/Ld5/BeCWngEYxn2ZbEpp7k7EgFG6WawMUiQO/RKNPt0GyHYcSWp5Y4IrMW4dzaGk+SUKQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=tHtbsgEZzxej+fMs83VUa4tS4cewJ4h1si4vUaWJR4E=; b=Z4smoXeuPPJDm4GG/EfGCBxN47BNC6PGujGLBZYV531c38jLylwQJ69W+hOnvTmA0dzOu/3HkGWhIOUO8tkWuOajZPfXz7U0FOL5bLnmjY7J9IZ8AnHPaFcvgJVE/nOu09FCGsJY2iuZ9iOYUCokc1Qb7WbpDNc3WCGq+Nl+y91hwF1yx2Fxou11V0pJYD2sDhgptq3uDeYNpktuTyz0qi1gDhjfrh4Qad1uywGSoywkb+UzUE8WhRSZIqZBuK5pv2wZclEuokcUF2OIwUY0dr40gPdNNsKf1DRApRwmxhGrNAGwRnnmYB68sD8xOBpW8wEUnzCY4xyITjHihCD36A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uwyo.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; dkim=pass header.d=uwyo.edu; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uwy.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-uwy-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=tHtbsgEZzxej+fMs83VUa4tS4cewJ4h1si4vUaWJR4E=; b=udBONxbyo8SQ//IEoP2577R1sZnDNM6hzgWONKTaQckxAZHeE5xyNoq/+2lgtoXXdBja1K9eRzvXG3FyevRh9Grx/3yNUy9445UHOO/ZgXXub7iMQlmoRLyDYPZOYBw3nj25ecWx5AA0oVk4ORF8qjyNdiHOY/CtdvrmjEL+lSc= Authentication-Results: lancaironline.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;lancaironline.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) by CY4PR05MB2981.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:b::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3977.16; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:26:29 +0000 Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1e9:5b1:bad:1005]) by CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1e9:5b1:bad:1005%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3955.013; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:26:29 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-87BD2D09-5D4E-4997-AAA3-D9FE9C5C3AAB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: dynamic balance Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 14:26:26 -0600 Message-Id: <1F3BC01F-0AB7-444E-B2F4-35C06F3921AC@uwyo.edu> References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18D52) X-Originating-IP: [98.127.84.85] X-ClientProxiedBy: MWHPR13CA0005.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:16::15) To CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) Return-Path: sboese@uwyo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (98.127.84.85) by MWHPR13CA0005.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:16::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3977.10 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:26:29 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 10070757-f38d-43ac-6d3f-08d8eb154753 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CY4PR05MB2981: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(346002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(376002)(39860400002)(279900001)(478600001)(86362001)(186003)(166002)(83380400001)(16526019)(316002)(966005)(786003)(6916009)(26005)(52116002)(8676002)(53546011)(5660300002)(36756003)(2906002)(6486002)(956004)(66946007)(8936002)(6666004)(15974865002)(66556008)(33964004)(66476007)(33656002)(38100700001)(2616005)(16576012)(75432002)(430100009)(45980500001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1501; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: =?utf-8?B?WDcrQit2RmlDcmxJNFU0cDZycTk2WUVaMmZUTlBha1NZR09XV0gvWVp2YWxm?= =?utf-8?B?cTFFZGozZWwwRHcwMmh4Rm5vY29VOVpGeUFOLzRrR1V2eSthVEE4NUNCTmJh?= =?utf-8?B?cGc3eExnWml4d003c0pSMXhDU3VoT21lemZCUlRMV0NMWUVrTE5MMnFUN3dQ?= =?utf-8?B?Yi9IUXBpbk9zTGdSeDNENnozdnN1ZVNZRENHaDlzRDNqbFZ6YUpoYkhlUzVV?= =?utf-8?B?elhpU01HRnEwa2EvYnk0NFdRMURUZ2ZhSWJUMEFYblFPcWhNRHJwZ2ZIMkYr?= =?utf-8?B?azErTWpqWDBqWWVUbzdpaFV3OFJiZWxqclhuVWtwZlV0RzJzKzZnZm1TQytu?= =?utf-8?B?aTBHQmtCL2hIbzhjREszQlpkWmF5WG1XY05JUllqdVdpOGFoZUZHOVkwNlc2?= =?utf-8?B?a09NTVEwOHZwNHV1RmNKMUhGZGJmeWNGRU9seFV0NHhHRnFzWFk5WGpMaktu?= =?utf-8?B?bGoydXR3TVZCUGZYYkFoZ2xiTEh2eWtEbkFraDVkWkhQUzFIU0ZzL2o5ZU1w?= =?utf-8?B?R2dzVE1Ma0E4M2JlS3Vyc1BTWXB3Sys1dnF5UkRJWU83SXBURXJkM2x2VGtx?= =?utf-8?B?dUtSWmRHTVhXaTI0dTFNT0V1d3JXNDVES3dObHpJUEw4aU5KRUxvSjFsTDA2?= =?utf-8?B?dVJqcjBoZldlUXFua1grdnltd1MrUWxPRkF1K3QzVTM4TUxRQVNuNUNvaFVI?= =?utf-8?B?b3hDaVpxd2pYVGdEcjBDTE5oc0k4R0FBSnZpMXkyYVRJRy9vdUJFZGJwZWFN?= =?utf-8?B?cGI4SmpxQlNiVFRFNVlZdlllVnBaT216MTZHd0E4K3BNQ1lleSszZ3JCdmpn?= =?utf-8?B?Z1ZjcUJBN0FQVWlJcGVsYWZPVVpxakorbTY1d0wzSWhpaE8wMVltL3ozSkJr?= =?utf-8?B?b1NDdG96YitXRGs5LzBUbTM3RUR2Y01WWHVLWFZOT2F2OC9Pakp1eWYwY3N6?= =?utf-8?B?YVgxTjRpUHl1d2hFb2VLeDd6eWR5U0d3aDdQbU9WSjZXRWNRSU1aQWNab2Mv?= =?utf-8?B?RWdGUS9FOVRBY1VQUWdsbDhrWU92U0lUai9kTkd2V213cHFDZ1diYUFPTWFm?= =?utf-8?B?My83bzNsOHErTEt0bkQ1WlVqZ1N3cjRTS2t6S2QyY2dpbVkwYStXZzFNZlZT?= =?utf-8?B?bEJpdERjcXR6Nm5PWlFTK3ExZGtWaWxPdkk4MS9iYzBUWHRlVlNaSVNMcTZF?= =?utf-8?B?ak80dFFRRndmQXZKYTRhVEcvVXVRNlFHeVBFVytBdVNzVHQxMi9hSURoWlVv?= =?utf-8?B?bk5Genc4djJzeW9tT0lKRmdnU21wcnlXbnE5VWdOR0V6S21yOHZocVpjWmpY?= =?utf-8?B?OUpzcnlRbmJKWEg3SVdDanVtdUFvaEtJMlNaNjN1NkpLeFlnckg0NnJjTEI4?= =?utf-8?B?Z2pNSlNnb2xVc0p1SkY5M2hXeFVDVmZ4WklvdkNlUXdmc0xRSWsxekJucUh4?= =?utf-8?B?VFhaTDdxdDIwRC9weTN0cDMxSDhCYkVkMno1eWovdW5RcUlyL3lCUzF3bzAw?= =?utf-8?B?cU9IdmZDZGpneWZWbzdMNDlZMGdGdkV0OUc3enFZUmo2ZVJGK09hZUZRSC9N?= =?utf-8?B?NDZSUDlITEhBN0cvbTROcU9yM1pQZk96QjY2VkROdlYydFJPVUhSTS9TRGpL?= =?utf-8?B?N0tSNUtLbGxETGN4NHVxcEV5QllCQ3R1TDhWL2I5UVFzOURhN0w3eUluRVht?= =?utf-8?B?UHgzZnRHbUdXajBEM21WbU1VYmdUZzNRc3plbGUrOWlnVmZDaWN2VWdMK2gw?= =?utf-8?Q?Ks+CltFE8NFNhynp/YgUlQlFh799qrHis1ufdIj?= X-OriginatorOrg: uwyo.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 10070757-f38d-43ac-6d3f-08d8eb154753 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2021 20:26:29.7824 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f9cdd7ad-825d-4601-8e9c-a325e02d52da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: wH9pN9AXwQ0tTuZE0W0LGQ3r02hib4UqLobZb6+H9G56S+p2upDXKRrsnqvGEktl X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB2981 --Apple-Mail-87BD2D09-5D4E-4997-AAA3-D9FE9C5C3AAB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn, The FFT processing required two channels recorded simultaneously, one for th= e position reference and one for the accelerometer. The system I used allowed sampling of each channel at 5khz with no external a= mplification or filtering. My guess as to the prop 3x(blade) signal is that it is an interaction with t= he ground. The prop is 76=E2=80=9D dia resulting in about 8=E2=80=9D of pro= p tip to ground clearance. Also a guess on my part is that the engine 1x vibration may be coming from t= he flex plate shifting on the rubber dampers. My system has about 0.020=E2=80= =9D of clearance between the corners of the damper plate and the flex plate r= im when centered. When attempting to balance the engine, a point was reache= d where no further improvement was made and the phase angle was not consiste= nt between tests. I don=E2=80=99t know how much the splined shaft can restr= ict the possible shift off center of the damper plate, but the intensity of t= he vibration was consistent with the weight of the damper plate and 0.020=E2= =80=9D of eccentricity. This may also be affected by the load on the rubber= dampers. Steve Boese=20 > On Mar 19, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise c= aution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources. >=20 >=20 > Thanks Steve. >=20 > Seems that having the right hardware and software makes all the difference= . >=20 > I my attempts the phase signal was all over the place. That's why I moved t= o adding a nut. Appears than one needs two channels being sampled simultaneo= usly: trigger pulse and accelerometer, to get proper phase info? >=20 > Can you explain the prop "3x (blade)" ? Some kind of air interaction betwe= en prop, airframe and ground? In flight the air would quickly move past the p= rop, sitting still on the ground one could imagine some standing waves? >=20 > Also,=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD why does so much engine vibration remain (relative= to prop's)? I think you mentioned that you first balanced the engine and th= en the prop. >=20 > Finn >=20 >> On 3/18/2021 9:45 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote: >> This photo shows the Signalexpress FFT processed data from balancing the p= rop on the ground.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD The prop 3X (blade) signal disappeared i= n flight. >>=20 >> Steve Boese >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > =09 > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 > www.avast.com >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-87BD2D09-5D4E-4997-AAA3-D9FE9C5C3AAB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn,

The FFT processing require= d two channels recorded simultaneously, one for the position reference and = one for the accelerometer.

The system I used allow= ed sampling of each channel at 5khz with no external amplification or filte= ring.

My guess as to the prop 3x(blade) signal is = that it is an interaction with the ground.  The prop is 76=E2=80=9D di= a resulting in about 8=E2=80=9D of prop tip to ground clearance.
=
Also a guess on my part is that the engine 1x vibration may = be coming from the flex plate shifting on the rubber dampers.  My syst= em has about 0.020=E2=80=9D of clearance between the corners of the damper = plate and the flex plate rim when centered.  When attempting to balanc= e the engine, a point was reached where no further improvement was made and= the phase angle was not consistent between tests.  I don=E2=80=99t kn= ow how much the splined shaft can restrict the possible shift off center of= the damper plate, but the intensity of the vibration was consistent with t= he weight of the damper plate and 0.020=E2=80=9D of eccentricity.  Thi= s may also be affected by the load on the rubber dampers.

Steve Boese 


On Mar 19, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen= @verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

=E2=97=86 This message= was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking li= nks or opening attachments from external sources.


Thanks Steve.

Seems that having the right hardware and software makes all the difference.=

I my attempts the phase signal was all over the place. That's why I moved t= o adding a nut. Appears than one needs two channels being sampled simultaneously: trigger pulse and acceler= ometer, to get proper phase info?

Can you explain the prop "3x (blade)" ? Some kind of air interact= ion between prop, airframe and ground? In flight the air would quickly move= past the prop, sitting still on the ground one could imagine some standing= waves?

Also,=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD why does so much engine vibration remain (relative = to prop's)? I think you mentioned that you first balanced the engine and th= en the prop.

Finn

On 3/18/2021 9:45 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote:
This photo shows the Signalexpres= s FFT processed data from balancing the prop on the ground.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2= =BD The prop 3X (blade) signal disappeared in flight.

Steve Boese


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.=
net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html




3D"Avast

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com


=
= --Apple-Mail-87BD2D09-5D4E-4997-AAA3-D9FE9C5C3AAB--