X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf1-f170.google.com ([209.85.210.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1273923 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 15:37:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.170; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf1-f170.google.com with SMTP id r5so17103684pfh.13 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=CDXWf7wbQqdhEBFYWYpXthzN+ELbFnu/8K/VGtIAayU=; b=joMT9ua+HA8p4DqJp3cJ3zkN3AP9qgDU3PyIZ6ESlo/Fxxl7goSzEJd4P4S1Ym2rq4 LsvjVL4MrkSpyS9OJU46OcklNHNyJjXMwT69ITL77EFyf8El5rEwTDmhCDLhueWBXq4u wmkD+JOK5O+E7E4fShgVxegC43TdhEx7pYXHhqkiBI6IuvPmm4yGHC+tEaJ9TQH/rI+h 41YxvOllcxdRFVYEC2YnObZIXU3xyVvcdpnpPTU6XbaShKfDvGJl7X9CMKMSSY9fRN9H so7wJCTBABJh9iFn2cYRvY3Mjvi7b1LHPWWoR1zBvjepfLMfxeL7A31/Vhf6Ny45SL4E Jkbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=CDXWf7wbQqdhEBFYWYpXthzN+ELbFnu/8K/VGtIAayU=; b=sQ+YSqEnDzf0XKJKTbyGdX0iHUMa2xHyt4Q0SsbcwYzo5wYSrJ3GPe631/dvGw1QWQ HGXr/UIVZdwGcyGsVdw2pgPFzq+R+sXdQPRWJU5EsjhDr4KLMcmNqiSKaGGFQTE4eL+U 3IlD4n+yWH/rdZIhcgAux2VpZXXdRGWKdOB+YN8TALijI9lSUN/LnsacSXlVuOF9OHGX SbZ0B1EOcLOOivC28LwDVhYfd1fWVDP2pPvs5iFXcFmFKaQCT5L2QtNt1Kuu4tWDCWhr tb0rb9+apUuQMB8W/287fZLDku/pWrySW2krum+sy17eGtIm0HGx81eioeA5O4SU/408 uWZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530FoKZRws1XNvEUUAG3ed9l3hj5JTO9ggoVQ/ectOzt+/OlXbRi jTlnliJGMDQVV9aecXVwkrtigGWPsvY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx1PkTNO1/OBErMDgAtK7GCkSur9+HFz1tArNPJr8zJNIWgmEg2qN7hp2ZSkPz+yOIaL29SAw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:d842:: with SMTP id k2mr636235pgj.428.1614803820676; Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:37:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mp1sm7562441pjb.48.2021.03.03.12.36.58 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:36:59 -0800 (PST) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2021 07:36:56 +1100 Message-ID: <002001d7106c$f5984b30$e0c8e190$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01D710C9.290B3430" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGlT5nWVUwQ3V81fVhw0Q1+VFidVKrWOeqQ Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01D710C9.290B3430 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0022_01D710C9.290B3430" ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01D710C9.290B3430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, Have never thought of putting an O ring in with a lip seal. = When you say =E2=80=9Cseal retainer=E2=80=9D is this like Loctite or a = mechanical retainer?? Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 7:23 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal =20 For nearly every oil seal there is a double lip oil seal that fits in = the same space. I used these on rotary engines and transmissions. I = also installed a thin "O" ring in the base of each hole so no matter = what might happen, the seal would always seal. A seal retainer also was = applied so that the seal could not move out of the cavity any amount at = all. When using a double lip seal, add a bit of synthetic grease = between the lips so that both lips are lubricated always. On the main = seal I shortened the spring a bit to add a bit more pressure.=20 =20 My engines did not leak at all but a failed side seal or oil scraper can = suddenly dump sump gasses or oil into the case. Better a few more = minutes of power than not. I also glued them in with GE 100% tub and = tile caulk. =20 I had one oil seal escape the tail shaft of a transmission early in = life. The tranns got real hot, the hole got bigger than the seal, the = seal fell out. The trans lost all of it's oil. I lost the transmission.=20 =20 Rotaries require a crank case breather to keep such loading off of the = seals. Actual airplanes have such breather separators. Excessive blow = by can turn seals inside out and ruin a day, or just generate annoying = leaks. =20 Lynn E. Hanover=20 =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net = writes:=20 =20 Finn, =20 Steve posted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in 2019. The = AZK35525 I ordered and received has a bronze inner and steel outer race. = I have no idea on the oil seals.=20 =20 Bobby =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:28 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil seal =20 Thanks Bobby! When I Google AZK35525 most pictures don't show any races. Not included? Any significant difference between the Timken and National 350909 seals? Finn On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net = wrote: Finn, =20 A few us are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had 34.5 hours = on the new bearing when I sold the RV10. The bearing still look new.=20 =20 =20 5MM needle cage assy bronze inner race / steel outer race 35mm = AZK35525 35mm 52mm 5mm =20 7000 rpm =20 My oil seal was leaking and replaced at the same time as the 5MM = bearing. The leak was only detectable at idle. A small streak of oil was = form below the seal. In flight the oil would blow everywhere making it = impossible to located the source.=20 =20 350909 Rear Oil Seal National Oil Seal =20 =20 Bobby =E2=80=93 S21 kit has arrived.=20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:46 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] RD-1C input shaft oil seal =20 So there's a bunch of posts of input shaft oil seal failures. But what is the recommended oil seal? I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because found drops on=20 fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But after wrapping=20 paper towels around the fittings and doing a ground run-up, only traces=20 of oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung up from the input = shaft). On a different note. January last year I bought a =E2=80=9CINA 81107TN=20 Cylindrical Roller Thrust Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open End,=20 Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum Rotational = Speed=E2=80=9D=20 on Amazon for $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on my RV-3B.=20 (The stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now the same=20 bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on eBay for=20 $30.50. But dang! No inflation? Finn --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is = confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others = authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in = relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and = may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been = automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a = Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for = your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and = compliance. To find out more Click Here = . =20 =20 _____ =20 =20 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 www.avast.com =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_001_0022_01D710C9.290B3430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lynn,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Have never thought of putting an O ring in with a lip = seal.=C2=A0 When you say =E2=80=9Cseal retainer=E2=80=9D is this like = Loctite or a mechanical retainer??

Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 4, = 2021 7:23 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = RD-1C input shaft oil seal

 

For= nearly every oil seal there is a double lip oil seal that fits in the = same space.  I used these on rotary engines and transmissions. I = also installed a thin "O" ring in the base of each hole so no = matter what might happen, the seal would always seal. A seal retainer = also was applied so that the seal could not move out of the cavity any = amount at all.  When using a double lip seal, add a bit of = synthetic grease between the lips so that both lips are lubricated = always.  On the main seal I shortened the spring a bit to add a bit = more pressure. 

&nb= sp;

My = engines did not leak at all but a failed side seal or oil scraper can = suddenly dump sump gasses or oil into the case.  Better a few more = minutes of power than not.  I also glued them in with GE 100% tub = and tile caulk.

&nb= sp;

I = had one oil seal escape the tail shaft of a transmission early in life. = The tranns got real hot, the hole got bigger than the seal, the seal = fell out. The trans lost all of it's oil. I lost the = transmission. 

&nb= sp;

Rot= aries require a crank case breather to keep such loading off of the = seals. Actual airplanes have such breather separators.  Excessive = blow by can turn seals inside out and ruin a day, or just generate = annoying leaks.

&nb= sp;

Lyn= n E. Hanover 

&nb= sp;

&nb= sp;

&nb= sp;

In a message = dated 2/26/2021 9:00:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Finn,

 

Steve = posted a picture of three different 5mm bearings back in 2019. The = AZK35525 I ordered and received has a bronze inner and steel outer race. = I have no idea on the oil seals.

 

Bobby

 

From:<= /strong> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]
Sent: = Thursday, February 25, 2021 3:28 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: RD-1C input shaft oil = seal

 

Thanks Bobby!

When I Google = AZK35525 most = pictures don't show any races. Not included?

Any significant = difference between the Timken and National 350909 = seals?

Finn

On 2/25/2021 3:59 PM, Bobby Hughes BHughes@qnsinc.net = wrote:

Finn,

 

A few us = are / were using the bearing Steve identified. I had 34.5 hours on the = new bearing when I sold the RV10. The bearing still look new. =

 

 

5MM needle cage assy  bronze inner = race / steel outer race 35mm    AZK35525<= /o:p>

35mm

52mm

5mm

 =

7000 = rpm

 

My oil seal = was leaking and replaced at the same time as the 5MM bearing. The leak = was only detectable at idle. A small streak of oil was form below the = seal. In flight the oil would blow everywhere making it impossible to = located the source.

 

350909

Rear Oil = Seal  National Oil Seal

 

 

Bobby = =E2=80=93 S21 kit has arrived.

 

From:<= /strong> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =
Sent: = Thursday, February 25, 2021 12:46 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] RD-1C input shaft oil = seal

 

So there's a bunch of posts of input = shaft oil seal failures.

But what is the recommended oil = seal?

I think I've traced my oil leak to that. (Tricky because = found drops on
fittings near oil filter base after last flight. But = after wrapping
paper towels around the fittings and doing a ground = run-up, only traces
of oil is on the outside of them -- likely slung = up from the input shaft).

On a different note. January last year = I bought a  =E2=80=9CINA 81107TN
Cylindrical Roller Thrust = Bearing, Polyamide Nylon Cage, Open End,
Metric, 35mm ID, 52mm OD, = 12mm Width, 6500rpm Maximum Rotational Speed=E2=80=9D
on Amazon for = $18.40 to replace the input thrust bearings on my RV-3B.
(The = stacked bearings are cutting a groove in the shaft.) Now the same =
bearing set costs $135 and up. WTF! Did find SKF 81107TN on eBay for =
$30.50. But dang! No inflation?

Finn


---
This = email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
Ho= mepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 

Disclaimer

The information contained in = this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended = solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If = you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, = copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of = this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This = email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been = automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, = an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a = safer and = more = useful place for your human generated data. Specializing = in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click = Here.

 

 

3D"Image

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast = antivirus software.
www.avast.com =

 

--<= br>Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

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