X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Sboese sboese@uwyo.edu" Received: from [52.100.161.209] (HELO NAM04-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1262905 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 15:44:15 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=52.100.161.209; envelope-from=SBoese@uwyo.edu ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=RzABPXH4sJyB8buRzY8cF/KJ8NnZiKUBh3NTxj7aSVfIp83xEs8gQHLP8IpkwXu8BCGzvPlEi8CtEDM+sdc0zllcUoq1EnUiAdTjNUXuqxpiNIbCkaVzySJ2UJibJ5gYGm8NuswSChA0miiRi1s6l/uv+G0//jXIm/FH+Eh1d1cHVZth1CnapfoHQdpMfFuqnWH67gtivnzx8a2jXVhx2EoK/jKetGhCOtk42gZDmpHyq5hwSEXraDwmWeggUUvaLIojbgwJ5Ja/2WOMz6Mv8lGn6JFJz+/oeUUiH4XyrDrnGTop+l5s5bJAMzK8c5R+WKI4iGLN8dXIgW5m+N/oKg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YXzQmqauOt2o3qOUce3gag1O1fbk/MBMHhkZBK7FhVE=; b=gqZy6LoecmBkmyhSRbsLR6ajIMuc4JrZtVjusviz+VQ3Esons+TUFt8aqtTPegBaw7c5PImy0C/iQByoi+TxG2A0Ee4fRCjvlUrfCVCO2BlR7UCF+a6O6B3+GklHYHhFAWoNfJ/lozB0oKGtZrhSK29FFwM3yEq5LjPOWthbhYz1cs3XVEqv7n5IjofWPLY5wg8MZCJLck0wATUQj6JkmdkUG8T24fdTwtX+6VLk4pcdXSJEVuw0yBCJumMrK8mkpEjkwyIVgWVh0toBimSrbeHoKMmKcog33y5zvCj8EK6xwEhx8fy8LHH28YfwyY6DUyekCqmcG4y3vUM8LCO8yQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uwyo.edu; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; dkim=pass header.d=uwyo.edu; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uwy.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-uwy-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YXzQmqauOt2o3qOUce3gag1O1fbk/MBMHhkZBK7FhVE=; b=ybPWXN23cA44+gBptPW1oRzwNjTNRaJ7x5yen3jEXBG+Xhns6gZHCPFFwJLf0W/PIvpCM2xDX0PVbC6vrTHMbABwqd0CvyHN8VRartqxpKVkjtSj8XjxnB+f9b8isyClRsBnInfViajZQVBJvokCxL/rRGb63bynKVsEHacZlTE= Authentication-Results: lancaironline.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;lancaironline.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=uwyo.edu; Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) by CY4PR05MB3653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:5b::24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3912.9; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:43:57 +0000 Received: from CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d5c0:e303:c550:81dc]) by CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::d5c0:e303:c550:81dc%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3912.009; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:43:57 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3039D636-7153-4A61-8332-18D244B62F99 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: N214FL RV-4 First Flight Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2021 13:43:54 -0700 Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18D52) X-Originating-IP: [98.127.84.85] X-ClientProxiedBy: CY4PR19CA0033.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:103::19) To CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:57::35) Return-Path: sboese@uwyo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.4] (98.127.84.85) by CY4PR19CA0033.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:903:103::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3890.19 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:43:56 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: c512a1a9-8c48-4253-b3f8-08d8dc29917d X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CY4PR05MB3653: X-MS-Exchange-MinimumUrlDomainAge: flyrotary.com#6895 X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(376002)(346002)(136003)(39850400004)(366004)(396003)(279900001)(8676002)(186003)(66476007)(2906002)(8936002)(6486002)(66946007)(15974865002)(16526019)(53546011)(52116002)(66556008)(966005)(6916009)(2616005)(5660300002)(33964004)(33656002)(75432002)(166002)(956004)(26005)(316002)(86362001)(36756003)(16576012)(430100009)(786003)(83380400001)(478600001)(45980500001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1501; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: =?utf-8?B?TXByb092UUIrSEdIdW8xd2src0Z4N1dpNVE4V2JhSGhadGlvcVJ1M0hoL1h0?= =?utf-8?B?eEVPVzg0b1YwaWlsc3BXRzRQSGpvK3dJZzlxVHpzMWhSdmIySUsrL3QvV2E3?= =?utf-8?B?LzREYkc1VSs5Mk5qMmIvaFNxMnpsVTZ5aGx3Z2xMOXNWK1MxWVZHZEtPc2lX?= =?utf-8?B?R1VpOWRVZUw3SXprSlNjelNmNWJqQ1VIeExhSGlHNWNtUWhMZzNEaHNaWjNy?= =?utf-8?B?MmhwL2EyRmlUNkM0WWg4bWhHdGpnc1B5djJqS3B3aEkrdU10RUZCUmtBWkRP?= =?utf-8?B?NG1QM05yenlqS0hoVm9rYzEzQVZaZVExbEdENndwaTliWmhHSHJrVWxBMFJp?= =?utf-8?B?VjdmUDBJV1dDNmlFV0IvR1cvS3JDMSt3SDhIdmZTc2tBMHk1Q2Zud1dOMm1Z?= =?utf-8?B?L2hZRmgyRGNieDRlcE9WOTNTSm8zMGZza2k0N1NhZDNvQzQzRGxSVm1ONUgv?= =?utf-8?B?NWF1OHkvT01lRWVrZmJPc202M2hpUm1qUitiVEVQcmw2a2t0cmgxZFZ3OVht?= =?utf-8?B?S3hVNlpsVDh5Mm5nVDhPYnhpQUQxekJxY1VqdVY4dkI1a1l4dmdSdTVPamF6?= =?utf-8?B?UDdaOWFzeFlJWm9NZXVGeVBWZTRMLzFmYUxQbThHNG1IUzRoWjRrZmp6bnRL?= =?utf-8?B?NkxhTXQ3dEg4MFZNQ1RhS29sM2lWQWZOWDB4THRLdkZBUjNBZHRIUy9xWjdo?= =?utf-8?B?bWI5b05qOU5YenhYMXVESDBlcmZ4R1V0RDhvU003WkFtSUNxU0pnNGNDMGJE?= =?utf-8?B?dlJCemcxZFBxSGVjVTR1YzRKQ3AvcEEwUy9wREFXVm9zbmlwMHF3WnNMc0NO?= =?utf-8?B?dk5uOXBHbjBXT0xTYk9SaE9jL2wwNzdpcHBkUENzMW40YWtEZEdGWk41U2FH?= =?utf-8?B?TG5ZZWxpcWNDNFZtOGFtQzdJamg1KzBFTkNaVGlISzFRZUg4QzVFd1Nka0xw?= =?utf-8?B?NG56Si9ZTXQ2bVZIdmJBVXdQRzZjZGdPdjVxWE4yaTkxakxHYzJQZEZsZFNJ?= =?utf-8?B?a1dRNUVwWURnWFUycVZQYWc1a0krWHdFSHQ3TVcxWWpXZW1Ja0JQNmdwWmdK?= =?utf-8?B?RUw4cEp4ajZiUVlweDJXQXJVSlpIRzUzTFJlM3FncEpHcUZ5SjRUakl5dTcw?= =?utf-8?B?UnZwQ0tzWDNPWEJOV0hQUnBOeG52eDVzVlFLUWlDSUVKMWplbnhzbDJxM2N1?= =?utf-8?B?MGJhREpITGRvTVNPN2pac3FvSy8yTWJhQkZYanQyWEZiRXpPdytDeUVWN2RI?= =?utf-8?B?cVZBRFd4d2tuYXFKVnVnTTRCWGpWaHVyN1IzQjc3NVhRaGRCSjRpNmIrNmlm?= =?utf-8?B?M0NZaWc4b1VDbzRzSm92N1VLMS90ZEZmeDE3d0ZkN0lQNG9RMVVkNlBWanRT?= =?utf-8?B?aEtzR29jcXRwUU40UXNEV3pONUhsdWRieWpDdmJrdkduOTZMWmlnVjB0L3dY?= =?utf-8?B?NlNqSXhaUFZVR3hoSDNFSEJ2YUJoRmpUMXZjWGgrOUJTbGFIc0MxSU5tT0ZE?= =?utf-8?B?eXl3c01TY2NsTkFuWlVEZzJuaE1IVEhsWmxwWnZFZ3RjRzBXYUN5ZXJLOFNW?= =?utf-8?B?QlhZUUJuNEVtbDZHRWxuSC9rQ3MyYlhwYmJTaXVOUW12aUE4SUtxYlcvUXBR?= =?utf-8?B?Q2xTd0RYTlA0d1RGWkdVeVhJQ1liTmZFdnZncm92MjZQY3c4Q1dWU0dteHQv?= =?utf-8?B?MlB4UVhkWi9rYUl0Vmd1eittaDJDajFsbUJrVmJGSTcyL213Y1lYZ1c3aUxH?= =?utf-8?Q?xUmiAVMzNK6IfCO50kGNnfPtOu/Norh9e/YLjb8?= X-OriginatorOrg: uwyo.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c512a1a9-8c48-4253-b3f8-08d8dc29917d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CY4PR05MB3384.namprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2021 20:43:57.0056 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f9cdd7ad-825d-4601-8e9c-a325e02d52da X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 59hLYFxGql7SBG4s/iNfd9ni/TEb96vGuz1trQbf8T1j4qMLe1z7iMSPR+Mdr/0X X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB3653 --Apple-Mail-3039D636-7153-4A61-8332-18D244B62F99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn, Just ignore the following message if the contents are obvious: A higher flow rate of coolant through the system will result in a smaller de= lta T of the coolant. =20 The air doesn=E2=80=99t know or care about the coolant flow rate. It is jus= t removing heat from the exchanger regardless of how that heat got there. T= he air flow was sufficient to keep temps under control for the conditions of= that flight. With the same air flow rate and power setting, an increase in= OAT will result in an increase in the exchanger (coolant) temp since the am= ount of heat removed is dependent on the air flow rate and the air delta T. I= ncreasing the power in addition to the OAT with the same air flow rate will i= ncrease the coolant temps even more. This all assumes that the overall efficiency of the heat exchanger is affect= ed minimally by the coolant flow rate. The efficiency of the exchanger shou= ld increase somewhat with an increase in coolant flow rate but it is difficu= lt to predict by how much. There is something to be said for changing only one thing at a time, though.= Steve Boese=20 > On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise c= aution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources. >=20 >=20 > Here's pictures of the small in- and outlets. (looking into 5/8" and 3/4 O= D tubes). >=20 > Finn >=20 >> On 2/27/2021 11:29 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >> Yep, inlet/outlets on rads are very, very restrictive. 7/64x1/2" (0.05 sq= in or 1/4" diameter hole equivalent)) at best. I was aware of it when I JB-w= elded 5/8" and 3/4" over existing tubes and "just wanted to see how it would= work" and then forgot about it. >>=20 >> Drilling holes in tank end plates I also found a small tube inside one ta= nk and baffles in both tanks. Now removed. >>=20 >> As for airflow, when I get new elbows welded onto the rads I'll collect n= ew data. I think the large delta is due to the very slow coolant flow -- sta= ys in rads way too long (and thus not circulating through the engine fast en= ough). >>=20 >> Finn >>=20 >>> On 2/27/2021 9:32 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote: >>> Finn, >>>=20 >>> If the "WTeng" sensor location is somewhere in the engine block and not a= t the coolant outlet and the "WTout" sensor is in the coolant exiting the en= gine, then the coolant flow rate through the system may need to be increased= by enlarging the radiator connections.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD Typically, it seem= s that at normal operating temps, the delta-T across the engine and across t= he radiators is about 15 deg F. >>>=20 >>> It also would appear that the mass air flow through the radiators may ne= ed to be increased since the air delta T is quite large and the temp of the a= ir exiting the radiators is close to temp of the coolant exiting the radiato= rs.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD If your OAT were increased to 100 deg F, you could see= "WTout" of ~250 deg F with the setup as it is now. >>>=20 >>> The attached plots show the effect of changing only the air inlet and ou= tlet areas of my system which has ~0.9" id plumbing to the single radiator.=C3= =AF=C2=BF=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD >>>=20 >>> FWIW >>>=20 >>> Steve Boese >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =09 >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.=20 >> www.avast.com >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html --Apple-Mail-3039D636-7153-4A61-8332-18D244B62F99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Finn,

Just ignore the following = message if the contents are obvious:

A higher flow r= ate of coolant through the system will result in a smaller delta T of the c= oolant.  

The air doesn=E2=80=99t know or care abou= t the coolant flow rate.  It is just removing heat from the exchanger = regardless of how that heat got there.  The air flow was sufficient to= keep temps under control for the conditions of that flight.  With the= same air flow rate and power setting, an increase in OAT will result in an= increase in the exchanger (coolant) temp since the amount of heat removed = is dependent on the air flow rate and the air delta T. Increasing the power= in addition to the OAT with the same air flow rate will increase the coola= nt temps even more.

This all assumes that the over= all efficiency of the heat exchanger is affected minimally by the coolant f= low rate.  The efficiency of the exchanger should increase somewhat wi= th an increase in coolant flow rate but it is difficult to predict by how m= uch.

There is something to be said for changing on= ly one thing at a time, though.

Steve Boese <= /div>

On Feb 28, 2021, at 12:= 47 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt; wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

=E2=97=86 This message= was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking li= nks or opening attachments from external sources.


Here's pictures of the small in- and outlets= . (looking into 5/8" and 3/4 OD tubes).

Finn

On 2/27/2021 11:29 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
Yep, inlet/outlets on rads are very, very re= strictive. 7/64x1/2" (0.05 sqin or 1/4" diameter hole equivalent)= ) at best. I was aware of it when I JB-welded 5/8" and 3/4" over = existing tubes and "just wanted to see how it would work" and then forgot about it.

Drilling holes in tank end plates I also found a small tube inside one tank= and baffles in both tanks. Now removed.

As for airflow, when I get new elbows welded onto the rads I'll collect new= data. I think the large delta is due to the very slow coolant flow -- stay= s in rads way too long (and thus not circulating through the engine fast en= ough).

Finn

On 2/27/2021 9:32 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote:
Finn,

If the "WTeng" sensor lo= cation is somewhere in the engine block and not at the coolant outlet and t= he "WTout" sensor is in the coolant exiting the engine, then the = coolant flow rate through the system may need to be increased by enlarging the radiator connections.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD Typically, it see= ms that at normal operating temps, the delta-T across the engine and across= the radiators is about 15 deg F.

It also would appear that the mass= air flow through the radiators may need to be increased since the air delt= a T is quite large and the temp of the air exiting the radiators is close t= o temp of the coolant exiting the radiators.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD If your OAT were increased to 100 deg F, you = could see "WTout" of ~250 deg F with the setup as it is now.

The attached plots show the effect= of changing only the air inlet and outlet areas of my system which has ~0.= 9" id plumbing to the single radiator.=C3=AF=C2=BF=C2=BD=C3=AF=C2=BF= =C2=BD

FWIW

Steve Boese
= 



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   h=
ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html




3D"Avast

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.av= ast.com



<RadOutlet.jpg>
<RadInlet.jpg>
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Arch= ive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html
= --Apple-Mail-3039D636-7153-4A61-8332-18D244B62F99--