X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1200239 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 15:56:51 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.177; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id a16so6731032plh.8 for ; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:56:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=Sj3I4G7g5mmpMeoKYONIaWeRbqrDKOEOZaR2cpXIZzw=; b=Z8DhHFeqz+6BTsf7uTK5u/s7vg/ZdW1medieg4tx2qoLPzbeRvplz3APs4Sm8ij3VP R/yxKk60FC3w/BQYGSigaHF/NzdFd5Rnhfjft1d/O/oKnjFL2UnLLkkPdcusoF7BGto2 xLyhD8tY/NJlKL2/gUyeevZjU4Md4E300XYDGY6qFDI4R1vsOiGrsL6+aENpkB0NgGYK UnUJBxByCgk1wijQWgtLjd3rtqCdV8Hp+HXVpLXzAGD42Oyc7tK5Jo5i/+0qCEUZIYT5 /SOK6g7JPmSjRxNMmhCNv9xuAR2NARFQTmjh4n2ugnKvC44pEGjklm5CcWoRWsp0iyC5 gRJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=Sj3I4G7g5mmpMeoKYONIaWeRbqrDKOEOZaR2cpXIZzw=; b=O68zJXwqQOm+oN2OFumvpo/War+AAOGq6mUyOnrschwWR9Hhp7HftvN6bsXnAQo0/O krokHlMfRXDyq+D0LY/hxBxbBB0QX+/cFpB25SeLKekpQRenrz3BZS6h2bV9voqQ14c8 F5RabukFnlAQpZBlnrv/cfdjir2IL97A8IeVmj22VRXMZ4FAFEc/EENIgWMTDjyrjxWv 2XPmJCuLiGJkqZyjt8uauXKVTNBoRr6XXHMe1ADDItFYO0Lth/9sZlEkftaRFPk48NSe cNZxiRPtMiF+TlINf31tAxkKPQZb0Q/js7t2TeJDrfh02YSL7BWWcQm07A0F5kN/4zok /bLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531L0WexWm6pa6Xg90BuWtGLZgTjEkH85g3zhNMciZKlS2iX1Yf6 zQoMETObEhdhamhe/83Qfv86AOFtuME= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzkb3qD0Wtcj346E8KuANuc/Ll6gDtSCZ0KWkQkugk1Bprhjaxa8BJo2cHbPDlZ2D04cy/tQQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:f2d3:: with SMTP id gt19mr13745947pjb.212.1612731393324; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:56:33 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p8sm16249310pgi.21.2021.02.07.12.56.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:56:32 -0800 (PST) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Richard Sohn?? Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 07:56:29 +1100 Message-ID: <001901d6fd93$b6c10050$244300f0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01D6FDEF.EA33C240" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQE4PDd6GAgGC4uBQOLN82I0IbLuqquKroRA Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01D6FDEF.EA33C240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Great to hear from you!. WE are all getting to that = time in life. Keep well, Neil in OZ. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Monday, February 8, 2021 6:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Richard Sohn?? =20 Hi Ed, I am still here. Done flying. I still have the AVID with the = single rotor operational. Don=E2=80=99t know what to do with it.=20 On my third flight I did not pay enough attention on the run up. When I = took off, lost power and the engine quit. Put it down in a cotton field = with out a scratch. Had to replace the rotor housing and the seals. The = reason was over heating because of low coolant level.=20 Bei the time I had fixed the engine, I realized it was time to call it = quits with all the experimentation and test piloting while I have some = time left to enjoying some ground time.=20 =20 That is where I am. =20 Richard =20 Sent from Mail for = Windows 10 =20 From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com =20 Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:45 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Richard Sohn?? =20 Does anyone know if Richard Sohn is still on the fly rotary list? He = did some amazing work with a single rotary version he made and I know he = got it airborne a time or two, but, then I have not hear anything more? =20 Thanks =20 Ed Anderson Rotary_Ed =20 ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Richard Sohn" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: 4/3/2017 4:19:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : Batteryless Fuel Injection?? =20 I don't know what to call it, but my single rotor is running on = something the supplier is calling fuel injection. In reality it is a = somewhat advanced Ellison carburetor. It operates without electricity, = has full mixture control and a primer, which can be used for over riding = vapor lock in the fuel lines. So far, I have around 50hrs run time on = the ground on two different engines including 1hr in the air. It may be = supplied from a fuel pump or gravity feed. The engine never have staring = problems. The air time was 3 flights, with the third one ending in a = dead stick landing because of engine overheating. The 12A based single rotor flows around 10 GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT.=20 I have not seen a carburetor, during the single rotor development, = performing comparably. Hope to be in the air again soon.=20 FWIW Richard Sohn =20 On 4/3/2017 2:44 PM, William Jepson wrote: Hi Guys,=20 Something that might be of interest is that the ORIGINAL Powersport = engines were setup with Airflow performance fuel injection. It required = a fuel pump (which could be mechanically driven) but used a electric = fuel pump. Works very well. Not quite as accurate as the modern = electronic injection, but can be run without a battery. Bill Jepson =20 On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley > wrote: Battery, alternator, recoil system =E2=80=93 ultimately there is = something spinning to create electricity to drive an = electrically-dependent fuel injection system. Personally, with a = high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d like to see a purely mechanical fuel = injection system fed with gravity fuel flow =E2=80=93 do away with the = redundant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (electric) injectors. What we have = is great as long as it all has a supply of electricity; having said that = I would not be without a battery in the present environment. Jeff =20 From: Charlie England > Subject: Batteryless fuel injection?? Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:10:26 -0500 To: Rotary motors in aircraft > =20 =20 Just saw this on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) group: =20 quote: Hi, the info from B&S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the moment. = It is an open-loop system from Kokusan and completely different to the = Delphi EFI on the 810 and the big block engines: =20 Vanguard has also developed a horizontal shaft small-block (627 cc) = engine, with an initial application in fire and rescue equipment. = Offered in a 23 gross hp rating, the engine incorporates an open-loop = EFI system developed by Japan=E2=80=99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and has = the ability to be operated with either an electric starting system using = a battery or a recoil starting system. =E2=80=9CThis one is a bit = unique,=E2=80=9D Leech said. =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s completely different = than the Delphi system we use on the other engines in that it can work = with a battery or without. Kokusan developed a technology that Delphi = did not have.=E2=80=9D Batteryless EFI itself is not new, as it has been = a staple on small two- and four-stroke engines used on such things as = off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles. The Kokusan system uses energy = generated by the pull of the recoil starter to power the engine control = unit (ECU), fuel pump and injectors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2=80=94 to = start the engine. The Vanguard small-block engine with recoil start has = been specified by a global manufacturer of fire equipment for a portable = generator set used in fire and rescue applications =20 I bet that will create quite some interest in the flying apparatus = circles. If the EFI is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter, the EFI = would be fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000'). = Unfortunately, I haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to check = what components are used in the EFI system. :unquote =20 These are V-twins. Might be interesting to see if there's a way to alter = the 90* timing to the rotary's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a rotary = using this system & larger injectors... =20 Google search for the FI mfgr: https://www.google.com/search?q=3DKokusan = = &oq=3DKokusan&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57&sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusa= n+fuel+injection&* =20 Charlie =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you.=20 =20 =20 --=20 Richard Sohn 8029 County HWY 1087 DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01D6FDEF.EA33C240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Richard,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Great to hear from you!.=C2=A0 WE = are all getting to that time in life.=C2=A0 Keep = well,

Neil = in OZ.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, February 8, = 2021 6:32 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Richard Sohn??

 

Hi Ed, I am still here. Done flying. I still = have the AVID with the single rotor operational. Don=E2=80=99t know what = to do with it.

On my third flight I did not pay enough = attention on the run up. When I took off, lost power and the engine = quit. Put it down in a cotton field with out a scratch. Had to replace = the rotor housing and the seals. The reason was over heating because of = low coolant level.

Bei the time I had fixed the engine, I = realized it was time to call it quits with all the experimentation and = test piloting while I have some time left to enjoying some ground time. =

 

That is where I = am.

 

Richard

 

Sent from Mail for = Windows 10

 

From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com=
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:45 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Richard = Sohn??

 

Does anyone = know if Richard Sohn is still on the fly rotary list?   He did = some amazing work with a single rotary version he made and I know he got = it airborne a time or two, but, then I have not hear anything = more?

 

Thanks

 

Ed Anderson

Rotary_Ed

 

------ Forwarded Message = ------

From: = "Richard Sohn" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

I don't know what to call it, but my single = rotor is running on something the supplier is calling fuel injection. In = reality it is a somewhat advanced Ellison carburetor. It operates = without electricity, has full mixture control and a primer, which can be = used for over riding vapor lock in the fuel lines. So far, I have around = 50hrs run time on the ground on two different engines including 1hr in = the air. It may be supplied from a fuel pump or gravity feed. The engine = never have staring problems. The air time was 3 flights, with the third = one ending in a dead stick landing because of engine = overheating.

The 12A based single rotor flows around 10 = GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT.

I have not seen a carburetor, during the = single rotor development, performing = comparably.

Hope to be in the air again soon. =

FWIW

Richard Sohn

 

 

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Battery, alternator, recoil system = =E2=80=93 ultimately there is something spinning to create electricity = to drive an electrically-dependent fuel injection system.  = Personally, with a high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d like to see a purely = mechanical fuel injection system fed with gravity fuel flow =E2=80=93 do = away with the redundant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (electric) = injectors.  What we have is great as long as it all has a supply of = electricity; having said that I would not be without a battery in the = present environment.

Jeff

 

Just saw = this on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) = group:

 

quote:

Hi, the = info from B&S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the moment. It = is an open-loop system from Kokusan and completely different to the = Delphi EFI on the 810 and the big block engines:

 

Vanguard has also = developed a horizontal shaft small-block (627 cc) engine, with an = initial application in fire and rescue equipment. Offered in a 23 gross = hp rating, the engine incorporates an open-loop EFI system developed by = Japan=E2=80=99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and has the ability to be = operated with either an electric starting system using a battery or a = recoil starting system. =E2=80=9CThis one is a bit unique,=E2=80=9D = Leech said. =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s completely different than the Delphi = system we use on the other engines in that it can work with a battery or = without. Kokusan developed a technology that Delphi did not = have.=E2=80=9D Batteryless EFI itself is not new, as it has been a = staple on small two- and four-stroke engines used on such things as = off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles. The Kokusan system uses energy = generated by the pull of the recoil starter to power the engine control = unit (ECU), fuel pump and injectors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2=80=94 to = start the engine. The Vanguard small-block engine with recoil start has = been specified by a global manufacturer of fire equipment for a portable = generator set used in fire and rescue applications

 

I = bet that will create quite some interest in the flying  apparatus = circles. If the EFI is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter, the EFI = would be fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000'). = Unfortunately, I haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to check = what components are used in the EFI system.
:unquote

 

These are = V-twins. Might be interesting to see if there's a way to alter the 90* = timing to the rotary's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a rotary using = this system & larger injectors...

 

Google search for = the FI mfgr:

https://www.google.com/search?q=3DKokusan&oq=3DKokusa= n&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57&sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusa= n+fuel+injection&*

 

Charlie

From:

Charlie = England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

Batteryless = fuel injection??

Date:

Mon, 3 Apr = 2017 08:10:26 -0500

To:

Rotary = motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

 

This message, and the documents attached = hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or = confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly = prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us = immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then = delete the original message. Thank you. =

 

 

-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY =
1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL =
32433

 

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