X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: " eanderson@carolina.rr.com" Received: from [47.43.26.137] (HELO p-impout006.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1199832 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 12:35:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=47.43.26.137; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from [192.168.1.7] ([66.26.208.242]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id 8nxclN0NPFiZV8nxclZ1YN; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:35:01 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=XINOtjpE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=hG3epedDSl5lteqJAkiezQ==:117 a=hG3epedDSl5lteqJAkiezQ==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=vLwWDTHnAAAA:20 a=YztF_AUG-SZFmaDs2R0A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=LoHkbMfiAAAA:8 a=1XWaLZrsAAAA:8 a=gjcWA4erntXKkV2MNKgA:9 a=kMIfLFe4dMiixxoK:21 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=3j4BkbkPAAAA:8 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=kSSP8sd6EX4uBikroGMA:9 a=5C3_51TDqrxoC6ya:21 a=LMSC6PQK92QA:10 a=WWXlx_rsrvcA:10 a=ZHUsY8zHUz0Vp2Os_2YA:9 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 a=3LLsThThPyrG-VgeOI6T:22 a=W8ajF5jvLdG4-rt1DGEw:22 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Richard Sohn?? Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:35:00 +0000 Message-Id: Reply-To: eanderson@carolina.rr.com User-Agent: eM_Client/8.1.1054.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------=_MB59CC11D0-BE15-467C-AE31-1224A4B5EF55" X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfINjtCr9clgG0vTobez9WLOpulW0wDeyagooBMpnlHginm9ro21hA0SVFDy7NolnsJCX9xSprzfNnH2elqeOdBQV1sZ7bBRoOWO0EoFbyAzBFHV01O0W 7c88EfsTLK819Zw1/qIsf2dvk0L/4oUXEzj2AYWH992KsSC18ufe8dZHM0/4GRfv8VrNPBTBA0F3ew== --------=_MB59CC11D0-BE15-467C-AE31-1224A4B5EF55 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------=_MBF3AF92BC-30D1-46C1-9BFF-012AC0DAF274" --------=_MBF3AF92BC-30D1-46C1-9BFF-012AC0DAF274 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MB8B55C8B0-040A-4156-9968-8B5896DE1ECF" --------=_MB8B55C8B0-040A-4156-9968-8B5896DE1ECF Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know if Richard Sohn is still on the fly rotary list? He=20 did some amazing work with a single rotary version he made and I know he=20 got it airborne a time or two, but, then I have not hear anything more? Thanks Ed Anderson Rotary_Ed ------ Forwarded Message ------ From: "Richard Sohn" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: 4/3/2017 4:19:25 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : Batteryless Fuel Injection?? I don't know what to call it, but my single rotor is running on=20 something the supplier is calling fuel injection. In reality it is a=20 somewhat advanced Ellison carburetor. It operates without electricity,=20 has full mixture control and a primer, which can be used for over riding=20 vapor lock in the fuel lines. So far, I have around 50hrs run time on=20 the ground on two different engines including 1hr in the air. It may be=20 supplied from a fuel pump or gravity feed. The engine never have staring=20 problems. The air time was 3 flights, with the third one ending in a=20 dead stick landing because of engine overheating. The 12A based single rotor flows around 10 GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT. I have not seen a carburetor, during the single rotor development,=20 performing comparably. Hope to be in the air again soon. FWIW Richard Sohn On 4/3/2017 2:44 PM, William Jepson wrote: >Hi Guys, >Something that might be of interest is that the ORIGINAL Powersport=20 >engines were setup with Airflow performance fuel injection. It required=20 >a fuel pump (which could be mechanically driven) but used a electric=20 >fuel pump. Works very well. Not quite as accurate as the modern=20 >electronic injection, but can be run without a battery. >Bill Jepson > >On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley=20 > wrote: >>Battery, alternator, recoil system =E2=80=93 ultimately there is somethin= g=20 >>spinning to create electricity to drive an electrically-dependent fuel=20 >>injection system. Personally, with a high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d lik= e to=20 >>see a purely mechanical fuel injection system fed with gravity fuel=20 >>flow =E2=80=93 do away with the redundant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (elect= ric)=20 >>injectors. What we have is great as long as it all has a supply of=20 >>electricity; having said that I would not be without a battery in the=20 >>present environment. >> >>Jeff >> >> >> >>From: >> >>Charlie England >> >>Subject: >> >>Batteryless fuel injection?? >> >>Date: >> >>Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:10:26 -0500 >> >>To: >> >>Rotary motors in aircraft >> >>Message Header >> >> >>Undecoded Message >> >> >>Just saw this on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) group: >> >> >> >>quote: >> >>Hi, the info from B&S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the=20 >>moment. It is an open-loop system from Kokusan and completely=20 >>different to the Delphi EFI on the 810 and the big block engines: >> >> >> >>Vanguard has also developed a horizontal shaft small-block (627 cc)=20 >>engine, with an initial application in fire and rescue equipment.=20 >>Offered in a 23 gross hp rating, the engine incorporates an open-loop=20 >>EFI system developed by Japan=E2=80=99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and has th= e=20 >>ability to be operated with either an electric starting system using a=20 >>battery or a recoil starting system. =E2=80=9CThis one is a bit unique,= =E2=80=9D Leech=20 >>said. =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s completely different than the Delphi system w= e use on the=20 >>other engines in that it can work with a battery or without. Kokusan=20 >>developed a technology that Delphi did not have.=E2=80=9D Batteryless EFI= =20 >>itself is not new, as it has been a staple on small two- and=20 >>four-stroke engines used on such things as off-road motorcycles and=20 >>snowmobiles. The Kokusan system uses energy generated by the pull of=20 >>the recoil starter to power the engine control unit (ECU), fuel pump=20 >>and injectors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2=80=94 to start the engine. The= Vanguard=20 >>small-block engine with recoil start has been specified by a global=20 >>manufacturer of fire equipment for a portable generator set used in=20 >>fire and rescue applications >> >> >> >>I bet that will create quite some interest in the flying apparatus=20 >>circles. If the EFI is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter, the EFI=20 >>would be fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000').=20 >>Unfortunately, I haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to=20 >>check what components are used in the EFI system. >>:unquote >> >> >> >>These are V-twins. Might be interesting to see if there's a way to=20 >>alter the 90* timing to the rotary's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a=20 >>rotary using this system & larger injectors... >> >> >> >>Google search for the FI mfgr: >> >>https://www.google.com/search?q=3DKokusan&oq=3DKokusan&aqs=3Dchrome..69i5= 7&sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusan+fuel+injection&*=20 >> >> >> >> >>Charlie >> >> >> >>This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for=20 >>the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information.=20 >>Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have=20 >>received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that=20 >>we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original=20 >>message. Thank you. > -- Richard Sohn 8029 County HWY 1087 DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 --------=_MB8B55C8B0-040A-4156-9968-8B5896DE1ECF Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20
Does anyone know if Richard Sohn is still on the fly rotary li= st?=C2=A0 =C2=A0He did some amazing work with a single rotary version he ma= de and I know he got it airborne a time or two, but, then I have not hear a= nything more?

Thanks

= Ed Anderson
Rotary_Ed

------ Forwarded Message ------
From: "Richard Sohn" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: 4/3/2017 4:19:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : Batteryless Fuel Injection??

I don't know what to call it, but my single rotor is running on something the supplier is calling fuel injection. In reality it is a somewhat advanced Ellison carburetor. It operates without electricity, has full mixture control and a primer, which can be used for over riding vapor lock in the fuel lines. So far, I have around 50hrs run time on the ground on two different engines including 1hr in the air. It may be supplied from a fuel pump or gravity feed. The engine never have staring problems. The air time was 3 flights, with the third one ending in a dead stick landing because of engine overheating.

The 12A based single rotor flows around 10 GPH of gas at 6300RPM WOT.

I have not seen a carburetor, during the single rotor development, performing comparably.

Hope to be in the air again soon.

FWIW

Richard Sohn


On 4/3/2017 2:44 PM, William Jepson wrote:
Hi Guys,
Something that might be of interest is that the ORIGINAL Powersport engines were setup with Airflow performance fuel injection. It required a fuel pump (which could be mechanically driven) but used a electric fuel pump. Works very well. Not quite as accurate as the modern electronic injection, but can be run without a battery.
Bill Jepson

On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Batter= y, alternator, recoil system =E2=80=93 ultimately there is something spinning to create electricity to drive an electrically-dependent fuel injection system.=C2=A0 Personally, with a high-wing aircraft, I=E2=80=99d like = to see a purely mechanical fuel injection system fed with gravity fuel flow =E2=80=93 do away with the redun= dant (electric) fuel pumps, 4 (electric) injectors.=C2=A0 Wh= at we have is great as long as it all has a supply of electricity; having said that I would not be without a battery in the present environment.

Jeff

=C2=A0=

From:

Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net>

Subject:

Batteryless fuel injection??

Date:

Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:10:26 -0500

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Just saw this on a 'small 4stroke engine' (aviation) group:=

=C2=A0

quote:

Hi, the info from B&S for the EFI system is a bit sketchy at the moment. It is an open-loop system from Kokusan and completely different to the Delphi EFI on the 810 and the big block engines:

=C2=A0

Vanguard has also developed a horizontal shaft small-block (627 cc) engine, with an initial application in fire and rescue equipment. Offered in a 23 gross hp rating, the engine incorporates an open-loop EFI system developed by Japan=E2=80= =99s Kokusan Denki Co. Ltd. and has the ability to be operated with either an electric starting system using a battery or a recoil starting system. =E2=80=9CThis one is= a bit unique,=E2=80=9D Leech said. =E2=80=9CIt=E2= =80=99s completely different than the Delphi system we use on the other engines in that it can work with a battery or without. Kokusan developed a technology that Delphi did not have.=E2=80=9D Batteryless EFI itself is not new, as it has been a staple on small two- and four-stroke engines used on such things as off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles. The Kokusan system uses energy generated by the pull of the recoil starter to power the engine control unit (ECU), fuel pump and injectors =E2=80=94 in that order =E2=80= =94 to start the engine. The Vanguard small-block engine with recoil start has been specified by a global manufacturer of fire equipment for a portable generator set used in fire and rescue applications

=C2=A0

I bet that will create quite some interest in the flying =C2=A0apparatus circles. If the EFI= is using a MAP sensor or mass flow meter, the EFI would be fully altitude-compensating to 3,000+ meters (10,000'). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to source a parts manual yet to check what components are used in the EFI system.
:unquote

=C2=A0

These are V-twins. Might be interesting to see if there's a way to alter the 90* timing to the rotary's 180 & deliver enough fuel for a rotary using this system & larger injectors...

=C2=A0

Google search for the FI mfgr:

https://www.google.com/se= arch?q=3DKokusan&oq=3DKokusan&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57&sou= rceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF-8#q=3DKokusan+fuel+injection&*

=C2=A0

Charlie

=C2=A0=

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. 


--=20
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433
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