X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic306-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.132.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 1016217 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 07 Dec 2020 06:34:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.132.40; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1607340839; bh=tWfrP6JAD1WEtGxOcp7EejVf6ygGZ0uShj/ldCfAkD4=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=dSR4Og4/R3L8kivEJviZOo8hDas9QsiNjynVUvf107kW1jbpWCeqLvPdaXtxJSHdpyhRaN/uTXMgzF2Hn8Wn3wOVvHIepcS3V+Wz/BvL8zBNgpwMoQAQyHVLSbbdlkeyprD9mm3TZrj+ebJ34p/7vX1o/i/dp4Ppv32TcmlHOQNkBNWJaKBZ4QPNeFXe3Z/ekMSkhv/KUcfBjic1wGSTsMx2rIw8nzZ19WJGhPU1TtEw6jZwhzZZTluzxwYEl4rpjpgAd+hss7ftBlLK9eHYjAwVhmnl2iwTu+6WKzVIk8faj3PT6hN64CHPlOnqdv1plhUhzRmE3aZWpdLxIo5LLg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1607340839; bh=bDocAUVG4VbpNTaU03vfEdtswU8XDda4e/avHZKcpmE=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=hcWJ6YuKi9AeAF1pVXvWTJux6/ZzUJXkfhzTRhwgKQo+twf42Xgh17x6w+9JJGmMDNUh8BUFgq/manvslw7VhZEUGcCNTuAEpGhaOw312xlcTitI65UMeaVo55LTfe3Mr2VhKcDCeB2/cHUXoY68ZswnA1l71rywVZqc5ywRhKzOeoMK1KYpeSnfvhxwr0sM26kpHfYUClNILVlUs1HJxkaf8Y9fZqTqIiF+GL0l2TbSmpCYZ7mlNqMwBaRMRkRRT/caw+biEwfwDs20p4O7rtRRs2YmFEkPvpcc++W13V9amMuwghF6uYcfnEW8vWaTBC0PGhGHGIsDyG5hGG1IDA== X-YMail-OSG: X8_LlmsVM1kpr3aeGPIRM5EWrrU_otcBW4YvQ5rKxb0EnfyBFjsWOm1p7ZzCvlJ L_pXwJSMHHZf2Dpz5Bs81hnn9yWZVHpSU.Zpa0BBA56FUC_e3seiAeDwpQraH4NsPFxNbn94AxrL OqmVAucS7PKwERv73sWGK0OkHrwshUUHGSiQqUi_CGrcM15rikSLzLm97zPKAgVsVe2r62ME31n1 6EezB6cDO2vMl61ypLb.Td0HIT0wc_TtlusY9duVVbyQY7x1b1.ECdM1RgnvooOQhfdaOn1vuS4q UdblIu.S1bFQIYDuz.0CWsiZB_cS6KuWDieQ2.hySrKlO4jnC_gU2Jz2XAvX2X5IcFRGJ9vWWbRU QuOMLuxrrDx8FleVxoiAcO9Fn3KKtWyiorBKkKOswy68Z6.0oVr7BZcmQPRuwySSZ962cKuLcpyE Jj65yNBXBu7ASogUA9a3QU6onnNi6rfucoRbCNPsCLxIVU9_9TWkxhg.IdVzcwznY_rtBncgPfuw 9qcJcp04Z0BmRNQLuBqLuenEELYVzVxgCaWfTfWDcCvjJtnzG5_P6hvgCM0Vf3y3J3CiiHb9c5JR T.89Au7nBPhyOMObbq1YmU.zpTQJB.BROipC9bPJ8LGWEZ8AUdiM8xRkMVgC6O7QlpJ7gk8GJHqB zHrimYuUbBGSBAizev4.Qo6h2J8K89dDCQWNJzAkP8CSdZpJRxYqAsGWU6Gu.P_zXl0BqewchqpK ReUvKYTxyFnbHHtIeX4FQLStCrBmKvwuT.fJtx9RSZJul5DGln37.3HTcQC07fDhW33CzJM36I8X wGfTvzTZ3EXM.GWhvyaGqrpDN0gIU_XnKGbOKk11sMGE1ltYcQsHPqJXHTws8ZJGmjPlU.45JNlh aLVM1h8rydkICqJanRWqHc7bFFP8vonYOEWiS7W0jOhSW0KTIeVOxgvUHNEYGnQZNpVdMxdGK6dx NSHALJM1D.5bETHKflmuTVeXMRdQdk8nY7nY788gEYaDd7wxE4KfB8WXbUFuGoHQ_5ChnyHxiqdV Mn2VntQsWAAlT0Q8s0e74_76iBP3FkhcqkOnz.RCvUVUTvEOTG.h.m_CNzjMiDW6q76m1sOvHqbA bF0JR_dDVQATcy9N9Tz3C_Zjca4E9Q.XiLpnZ4O5A0YE_UEf4KWFG.oofMvv_VCkI11U.hZKPgNy prTbtvuPylDdYPeoTKgk1xuyvZ_bMPlRcXVeAxr2XHYGmj0G91GufbbciPYlAs2MsVjhNyaS94Fv on5E8I6c.DA.cC6MXzsv_iDaVTHY7fmaV8ZkHe1OgYXXXbdGeHYqkSmi9tQTdo7LfmCun5PGRMiK No6rgh6eqL2SWN3xMZVlGmMZCd7CV5zrco_JleCYd3MXbYAHk0OHm4wvrMtaIjTPFuIl74fXx0lA R7XdeZ9GCIm_OLNWkaXfQDCIZPeR17E7ptsK0yodPyUBUl4dfTMVZ4brg1mDe1wTAyvX.dQ_F3WF MEy4Z4UJ32l.HVCt.NdwdvMk10KeazJcML43HfNk3n_hlSoPkiJtU4BPlD9ZTLH5J.mzfDw1RfSO AL1lc7g_TDjTIxB7NrrWzoZkPkhZD9kXQI4S51dL_Dg7wtnQWFhrjplW7llZTm7lEmOU7lavYwWp GoKC3SSeItowLbSzPvK4sYdgivOdVQmmtJ14k_Zg2XnUcBNay6cV6KP.egevHJvAk80R_sZWXrx3 fve7jH2Z1k9h0WKQkWLZ0JRppV_WhZ7ICslX9chsoD1XFioTjGBJI0i3SBDpOR6.TcYkKTadtFav r60JZHVxm7Rmx65Zep1XBIRW1aFVd.AgzVf0Ax9DJtmEL6_KZEOBUIw1yRQeKeLdP4aRi0B7XiyC un9uMOmR80QbjdCYA5J.7lhTEB4Kps5SOqA.13YB2tJMeoOxpWtcrbXTA8zycbOq4H5.wbzbcSLA DeBpdoDqCsnsd7K30DGnMiu8yQpKNWfe.g0kVVCsh8vTARnEhwmeKwHbU.L4mcpZN8igLbwEGj.7 6VhmPDubHEbumMXPyadZS07rngNU7b2zbeQ4EIqfxOhBta6XtG5._fa7MmrHneeBPIvvSIIHkWgN 0uk7LHeHJy.Td6h8cLHLjXutwQWeh.m41M3czl29pstkKrlK.CowXP5mtjuQBd2Cz1DGl_axwO4g vkbcyMiP9OEj3.FCOd4OmOzlKPWcnTsH8HbzhJefhH_jSseXdWbXAviXrilzBISkXX5BzqgllMoy X1YbTCG2w8b4PIIs.Z8Ka4AF7R1I- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:33:59 +0000 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2020 11:33:56 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: lehanover To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1894500083.3281034.1607340836905@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-C damper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3281033_2116038208.1607340836902" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.17111 aolloki unknown Content-Length: 32654 ------=_Part_3281033_2116038208.1607340836902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carbon fiber directly against steel may be poor practice. Typically fibergl= ass is used against steel and then carbon fiber over the fiberglass. Carbon= fiber is conductive and can corrode steel.=C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0=C2= =A0In a message dated 12/7/2020 5:29:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary= @lancaironline.net writes:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi : It was mentioned on P.L. newsletter a couple of years ago - what= if the flexplate center are reinforced with say 6 layers of carbonfiber on= both sides ?The carbonfiber can be vacumebag and really good cured if doii= ng it from both sides.The carbonfiber will lock from both sides face to fac= e threw the bigger holes and will secure more than just on the metal itself= .Doiing the flexplate as a complete unit and then just cut and machine the = holes.It will be ridged and light as well and counter the gyroscopic forces= ect.that leads to cracks from the holes Then the rubber dampener could sti= ll be put in place.I am goiing to replace the center on this clutchplate wi= th a rubber dampener Regards Le Roux Sent from my iPhone Le Roux Breytenbach=20 > On 07 Dec 2020, at 09:07, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >=20 > See below what Tracy wrote in Feb 2012. > Also found a note in the archive where Tracy mentions only producing a fe= w of the RD-2 boxes before retiring. > So how many hours does Tracy=E2=80=99s RV4 with the damper removed now ha= ve on it.=20 > Sounds from what some have said that he may have installed this mod to hi= s 20B RV8 which may have more time, however thats a 3 rotor. What differenc= e would that make I wonder?=20 > I take it the torque reversal and pulses will be the same magnitude but t= he sum of those pulses may have a different outcome for anything connected. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Steve Izett >=20 >=20 > email from Tracy back in Feb 2012 - > "Finally got around to flight testing the aftermarket flywheel setup for = the RWS redrive.=20 >=20 > The cracked flexplate issue some builders experienced came up at the same= time as my CNC source for input shafts lost the ability to make them anymo= re due to loss of specialized spline making machinery.=C2=A0 Since I had to= line up a new source I took this opportunity to review the design from the= input shaft back to the engine.=C2=A0 Because the damper has been such an = expensive and labor intensive part, it was looked at as well.=C2=A0 As a re= sult, there have been enough changes to warrant a change in the name so the= new drives will be RD-2B & RD-2C. >=20 > In rethinking the drive I had the thought that since the relatively low f= requency primary resonance range of the drive train is taken care of by the= system lash, that left only the high frequency harmonics that the damper i= s responsible for.=C2=A0 This high range is the factor that creates the red= zone in rpm ranges found on some certified engines and metal prop combinat= ions.=C2=A0 As far as I know, no one has used a metal prop on an RD-1x driv= e so I decided that it was an unneeded requirement.=C2=A0 The new design ha= s no damper at all and consequently it has a "No Metal Propeller" restricti= on. >=20 > Replacing the damper is a flanged spline that is bolted directly to the f= lywheel using the same bolts (longer bolts required) that attach the flywhe= el to the counterweight.=C2=A0 The spline is a different spec (15 splines i= nstead of 30) so it is not compatible with the RD-1 damper but the new shaf= t itself is backward compatible with the remainder of the drive.=C2=A0 I re= trofitted the same RD-1C that was on my RV-4 for these tests. >=20 > The flywheel was an aluminum racing flywheel with the replaceable iron fr= iction surface unbolted and removed.=C2=A0 Really looks pretty and professi= onal compared to the flexplate.=C2=A0 Any of the aftermarket RX-7 & RX-8 ra= cing flywheels (steel or aluminum) that utilize the auto counterweight may = be used.=20 >=20 > As David Leonard found, these flywheels place the ring gear about .2" clo= ser to the engine than the flexplate.=C2=A0 To compensate, I milled .2" off= the front surface of the adapter plate where the starter mounts.=C2=A0 No = changes were needed to the starter itself.=C2=A0 I did not bother to grind = the lead-in bevel on the ring gear teeth as discussed earlier.=C2=A0 Starte= r engagement was smooth anyway. >=20 > The RV-4 drive had over 700 hours on it and everything looked beautiful i= nside.=C2=A0 No signs of wear other than a shallow groove (~.002") on the i= nput shaft where the 1mm thrust bearing race between the two needle bearing= s rides.=C2=A0 Others have reported more than this in fewer hours so this i= s an area to inspect carefully.=C2=A0 The new input shaft is a harder alloy= (post machining through hardened 4340) than the the RD-1 which was pre har= dened 4140.=C2=A0 This should reduce the wear in this area.=C2=A0 The old f= lexplate with over 1000 hours was still crack free.=C2=A0 The input shaft o= il seal still looked and felt new so it was not replaced as planed.=C2=A0 O= thers have reported these leaking in much fewer hours.=C2=A0 Don't know the= reason but I suspect that oil temperatures out of range may be a factor.= =C2=A0 NEVER allow oil temps to exceed redline.=C2=A0 If they go higher, ba= ck off the power then land and correct the cooling system. >=20 > Only 1 hour of flight testing so far but all indications were good.=C2=A0= Operated the engine through the full range of rpm up to 7100 looking for t= ell-tale signs of resonance.=C2=A0 I was sort of expecting to feel, sense o= r hear some indication of increased harshness in the drive with no rubber a= nywhere in the system but if anything, it felt smoother.=C2=A0 There was no= ne of the 'Waaa --- Waaa' warbling sound (like a twin engine with the engin= es out of sync) that I had with the Ross drive years ago.=C2=A0 So far I'm = very satisfied with the results but it's still early in the tests.=E2=80=9D >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 7 Dec 2020, at 9:47 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>=20 >> Thanks Lynn. >>=20 >> Steve >>=20 >>=20 >>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 9:04 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >>>=20 >>> If you have picked up a stock manual transmission flywheel for a rotary= , you must know that "Houston we have a problem". So the worst pick for a c= ar engine becomes the best pick for smoothness at idle. That flywheel is th= e answer. The less flywheel effect available the more powerful the reversal= s near idle. The more powerful the reversals the shorter the flex plate lif= e. The flex plate drives the car through a hydraulic damper. So it is with = the aircraft. No damper, short life. There are companies who make little ti= ny shock absorbers. I thought that 4 such shocks on a racing flywheel pushi= ng a driven disc should do the job. Even stock flex plates from piston powe= red cars get cracks. Few fail completely. >>>=20 >>> I think Tracy's pucks are adequate. Just double up the flex plate to ju= st outboard of the puck housings. No welding. Use nuts and bolts.=C2=A0 It = also adds actual flywheel effect which reduces the stress.=C2=A0=20 >>> For the racer I made a steel button flywheel. Just large enough to supp= ort a 2 disc 5 1/4" clutch. I bolted this on over the stock flex plate. The= flex plate was just used to start the engine and nothing else. I turned do= wn the face of the counter weight so as to provide a taller spigot to locat= e the flex plate and the flywheel. Piece of cake.=20 >>>=20 >>> The racer used a straight cut gear dog ring style gear box from Saenz i= n Argentina. The gears had enough clearance so as to agree with various RPM= s. As on start up form a stand still the RPMs would drop below 2,200 and th= e car sounded like a Brush Hog running over a pile of hammer heads. That is= what you want to avoid.=20 >>>=20 >>> Also when unloaded even at higher RPM. The same thing. So when featheri= ng the throttle like in third gear. When the engine is not driving the whee= ls and the wheels are not driving the engine. Maybe as on final you might g= et into this situation. So a bit more power, or, a bit less power will save= the day. >>>=20 >>> The teem had a very competent engineer. My hands are still dirty.......= ........ Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0=20 >>>=20 >>> In a message dated 12/6/2020 5:28:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net writes: >>>=20 >>> Thanks Dave. >>>=20 >>> Did you do away with your damper after your flax plate disintegrated/fa= iled over time, or was this still before Tracy changed his mind about the n= eed for the "higher frequency=E2=80=9D isolation provided by the damper? >>>=20 >>> I was trying to think about the forces at work on that thin steel plate= apart from the torque of your boosted 300 hp. >>> I was wondering about the gyroscopic (is that the right word) force cre= ated by that extra mass bolted to it, travelling at much higher velocity, a= nd then being asked to change direction with the subsequent =E2=80=9Cflexin= g=E2=80=9D forces at play. >>> Steve Boese=E2=80=99 science/engineering mind or Lynn Hanover=E2=80=99s= hands dirty experience appreciated at this point! >>>=20 >>> Thanks also to Dave Leonard for what we have learnt from your need for = speed, and Neil Unger=E2=80=99s relentless work on gearboxes. >>>=20 >>> So there being evidence of failure outside of aircraft use, I'll look i= nto another stronger starter ring gear. >>>=20 >>> BUT more to the point. what experience do we now have of removing the d= amper altogether? >>> I thought this was the important question, because if not required, app= ears to save significant: weight, cost, and maintenance. >>>=20 >>> Has there been further word from Tracy or anyone else flying the RD2 or= other no-isolator setups? >>> Tracy=E2=80=99s initial testing appeared promising but thats now some y= ears back. >>>=20 >>> Thanks heaps everyone. Couldn't have got this far without your brains, = pain, cheque book, experience etc. >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Steve Izett >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 12:52 am, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Steve, you are right.=C2=A0 The Issue is cracking og the auto-tranny f= lex plate.=C2=A0 Mine failed entirely.=C2=A0 I highly recommend making the = change sooner rather than later. >>>>=20 >>>> Dave Leonard >>>>=20 >>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 12:48 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Hi Charlie >>>>=20 >>>> I thought people moved to the race flywheels because the flex plates w= ere cracking. >>>> I hadn=E2=80=99t heard of the Engine/Drive/Prop needing a flywheel mas= s. >>>> I found some info on the forum archive but nothing to draw it all toge= ther. >>>> I=E2=80=99ll have a good look at the flexplate when I pull the drive a= nd check for cracking, but unless I hear otherwise I plan to reuse the flex= plate. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks >>>>=20 >>>> Steve >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 6 Dec 2020, at 8:58 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 12/5/2020 6:35 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> Hi team >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Having completed phase #1 testing of the Glasair Super IIRG power by= Renesis and RD1-C redrive, I=E2=80=99re going to pull the redrive for its = 25 hourly initial inspection. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Tracy deleted the damper assembly from the last rendition of his des= ign and I=E2=80=99m considering removing ours by creating a new adapter pla= te from the existing splined >>>>>> part that is currently riveted to the damper and adding some longer = bolts and spacers. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Has anyone heard anything further in regard to RD receives with the = damper removed? >>>>>> Has Tracy given any further updatess? >>>>>> All I have read was after initial tests some years ago. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Steve. >>>>> Best I remember is that you need either an aluminum or steel racing f= lywheel, to get more mass on the engine side of the system.=C2=A0 IIRC, it'= s also limited to low mass (wood, etc) propellers. The ones he sold had a d= ifferent input shaft, but I think Dave Leonard modified his RD1-C & to use = a steel racing flywheel which was only slightly heavier than the aluminum v= ersion. Search for Dave's posts, if he doesn't chime in. I've been wonderin= g if Guibo/Rototflex couplers could be a viable alternative to the aluminum= plate/rubber discs. Probably would weigh more, and definitely cost more. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Charlie >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyro= tary/List.html >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrot= ary/List.html >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrota= ry/List.html >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html-- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_3281033_2116038208.1607340836902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Carbon fiber directly against steel may be poor pract= ice. Typically fiberglass is used against steel and then carbon fiber over = the fiberglass. Carbon fiber is conductive and can corrode steel.  Lyn= n E. Hanover 
 
In a message dated 12/7/2020 5:29:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes:
 
 
Hi : It was mentioned on P.L. newsletter a couple of years= ago - what if the flexplate center are reinforced with say 6 layers of car= bonfiber on both sides ?
The carbonfiber can be vacumebag and really good cured if = doiing it from both sides.
The carbonfiber will lock from both sides face to face thr= ew the bigger holes and will secure more than just on the metal itself.
Doiing the flexplate as a complete unit and then just cut = and machine the holes.
It will be ridged and light as well and counter the gyrosc= opic forces ect.that leads to cracks from the holes
Then the rubber dampener could still be put in place.
I am goiing to replace the center on this clutchplate with= a rubber dampener



Regards Le Roux


Sent from = my iPhone
Le Roux Breytenbach

> On 07 Dec 2020, at 09:07, Ste= phen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.c= om <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
>
> See below what Tracy wrote in Fe= b 2012.
> Also found a note in the archive where Tracy mentions only = producing a few of the RD-2 boxes before retiring.
> So how many hour= s does Tracy’s RV4 with the damper removed now have on it.
> S= ounds from what some have said that he may have installed this mod to his 2= 0B RV8 which may have more time, however thats a 3 rotor. What difference w= ould that make I wonder?
> I take it the torque reversal and pulses = will be the same magnitude but the sum of those pulses may have a different= outcome for anything connected.
>
> Cheers
>
> S= teve Izett
>
>
> email from Tracy back in Feb 2012 -> "Finally got around to flight testing the aftermarket flywheel setup = for the RWS redrive.
>
> The cracked flexplate issue some bui= lders experienced came up at the same time as my CNC source for input shaft= s lost the ability to make them anymore due to loss of specialized spline m= aking machinery.  Since I had to line up a new source I took this oppo= rtunity to review the design from the input shaft back to the engine. = Because the damper has been such an expensive and labor intensive part, it= was looked at as well.  As a result, there have been enough changes t= o warrant a change in the name so the new drives will be RD-2B & RD-2C.=
>
> In rethinking the drive I had the thought that since the = relatively low frequency primary resonance range of the drive train is take= n care of by the system lash, that left only the high frequency harmonics t= hat the damper is responsible for.  This high range is the factor that= creates the red zone in rpm ranges found on some certified engines and met= al prop combinations.  As far as I know, no one has used a metal prop = on an RD-1x drive so I decided that it was an unneeded requirement.  T= he new design has no damper at all and consequently it has a "No Metal Prop= eller" restriction.
>
> Replacing the damper is a flanged spli= ne that is bolted directly to the flywheel using the same bolts (longer bol= ts required) that attach the flywheel to the counterweight.  The splin= e is a different spec (15 splines instead of 30) so it is not compatible wi= th the RD-1 damper but the new shaft itself is backward compatible with the= remainder of the drive.  I retrofitted the same RD-1C that was on my = RV-4 for these tests.
>
> The flywheel was an aluminum racing = flywheel with the replaceable iron friction surface unbolted and removed.&n= bsp; Really looks pretty and professional compared to the flexplate.  = Any of the aftermarket RX-7 & RX-8 racing flywheels (steel or aluminum)= that utilize the auto counterweight may be used.
>
> As Davi= d Leonard found, these flywheels place the ring gear about .2" closer to th= e engine than the flexplate.  To compensate, I milled .2" off the fron= t surface of the adapter plate where the starter mounts.  No changes w= ere needed to the starter itself.  I did not bother to grind the lead-= in bevel on the ring gear teeth as discussed earlier.  Starter engagem= ent was smooth anyway.
>
> The RV-4 drive had over 700 hours o= n it and everything looked beautiful inside.  No signs of wear other t= han a shallow groove (~.002") on the input shaft where the 1mm thrust beari= ng race between the two needle bearings rides.  Others have reported m= ore than this in fewer hours so this is an area to inspect carefully. = The new input shaft is a harder alloy (post machining through hardened 434= 0) than the the RD-1 which was pre hardened 4140.  This should reduce = the wear in this area.  The old flexplate with over 1000 hours was sti= ll crack free.  The input shaft oil seal still looked and felt new so = it was not replaced as planed.  Others have reported these leaking in = much fewer hours.  Don't know the reason but I suspect that oil temper= atures out of range may be a factor.  NEVER allow oil temps to exceed = redline.  If they go higher, back off the power then land and correct = the cooling system.
>
> Only 1 hour of flight testing so far b= ut all indications were good.  Operated the engine through the full ra= nge of rpm up to 7100 looking for tell-tale signs of resonance.  I was= sort of expecting to feel, sense or hear some indication of increased hars= hness in the drive with no rubber anywhere in the system but if anything, i= t felt smoother.  There was none of the 'Waaa --- Waaa' warbling sound= (like a twin engine with the engines out of sync) that I had with the Ross= drive years ago.  So far I'm very satisfied with the results but it's= still early in the tests.”
>
>
>
>
&g= t;
>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 9:47 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
= >>
>> Thanks Lynn.
>>
>> Steve
>&g= t;
>>
>>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at 9:04 am, lehanover <= a href=3D"mailto:lehanover@aol.com">lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :
>>>
>>> If you have picked up a stock manual tra= nsmission flywheel for a rotary, you must know that "Houston we have a prob= lem". So the worst pick for a car engine becomes the best pick for smoothne= ss at idle. That flywheel is the answer. The less flywheel effect available= the more powerful the reversals near idle. The more powerful the reversals= the shorter the flex plate life. The flex plate drives the car through a h= ydraulic damper. So it is with the aircraft. No damper, short life. There a= re companies who make little tiny shock absorbers. I thought that 4 such sh= ocks on a racing flywheel pushing a driven disc should do the job. Even sto= ck flex plates from piston powered cars get cracks. Few fail completely.>>>
>>> I think Tracy's pucks are adequate. Just dou= ble up the flex plate to just outboard of the puck housings. No welding. Us= e nuts and bolts.  It also adds actual flywheel effect which reduces t= he stress. 
>>> For the racer I made a steel button flywh= eel. Just large enough to support a 2 disc 5 1/4" clutch. I bolted this on = over the stock flex plate. The flex plate was just used to start the engine= and nothing else. I turned down the face of the counter weight so as to pr= ovide a taller spigot to locate the flex plate and the flywheel. Piece of c= ake.
>>>
>>> The racer used a straight cut gear d= og ring style gear box from Saenz in Argentina. The gears had enough cleara= nce so as to agree with various RPMs. As on start up form a stand still the= RPMs would drop below 2,200 and the car sounded like a Brush Hog running o= ver a pile of hammer heads. That is what you want to avoid.
>>>= ;
>>> Also when unloaded even at higher RPM. The same thing. S= o when feathering the throttle like in third gear. When the engine is not d= riving the wheels and the wheels are not driving the engine. Maybe as on fi= nal you might get into this situation. So a bit more power, or, a bit less = power will save the day.
>>>
>>> The teem had a ve= ry competent engineer. My hands are still dirty............... Lynn E. Hano= ver 
>>>
>>> In a message dated 12/6/2020 5:= 28:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>>>
>>>= ; Thanks Dave.
>>>
>>> Did you do away with your d= amper after your flax plate disintegrated/failed over time, or was this sti= ll before Tracy changed his mind about the need for the "higher frequency&r= dquo; isolation provided by the damper?
>>>
>>> I = was trying to think about the forces at work on that thin steel plate apart= from the torque of your boosted 300 hp.
>>> I was wondering ab= out the gyroscopic (is that the right word) force created by that extra mas= s bolted to it, travelling at much higher velocity, and then being asked to= change direction with the subsequent “flexing” forces at play.=
>>> Steve Boese’ science/engineering mind or Lynn Hanove= r’s hands dirty experience appreciated at this point!
>>>=
>>> Thanks also to Dave Leonard for what we have learnt from = your need for speed, and Neil Unger’s relentless work on gearboxes.>>>
>>> So there being evidence of failure outside = of aircraft use, I'll look into another stronger starter ring gear.
>= >>
>>> BUT more to the point. what experience do we now = have of removing the damper altogether?
>>> I thought this was = the important question, because if not required, appears to save significan= t: weight, cost, and maintenance.
>>>
>>> Has ther= e been further word from Tracy or anyone else flying the RD2 or other no-is= olator setups?
>>> Tracy’s initial testing appeared promi= sing but thats now some years back.
>>>
>>> Thanks= heaps everyone. Couldn't have got this far without your brains, pain, cheq= ue book, experience etc.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>= ;>
>>> Steve Izett
>>>
>>>
>= ;>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>&g= t;
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 7 Dec 2020, at= 12:52 am, David Leonard wdleonard@g= mail.com <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> St= eve, you are right.  The Issue is cracking og the auto-tranny flex pla= te.  Mine failed entirely.  I highly recommend making the change = sooner rather than later.
>>>>
>>>> Dave Leo= nard
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020, 12:48 AM= Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gma= il.com <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Charlie
>>>= ;>
>>>> I thought people moved to the race flywheels bec= ause the flex plates were cracking.
>>>> I hadn’t hear= d of the Engine/Drive/Prop needing a flywheel mass.
>>>> I f= ound some info on the forum archive but nothing to draw it all together.>>>> I’ll have a good look at the flexplate when I pull = the drive and check for cracking, but unless I hear otherwise I plan to reu= se the flex plate.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>&= gt;>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>= >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>= ;>>>
>>>>> On 6 Dec 2020, at 8:58 am, Charlie E= ngland ceengland7@gmail.com <= ;flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/5/20= 20 6:35 PM, Stephen Izett stephe= n.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> Hi team
>>= ;>>>>
>>>>>> Having completed phase #1 te= sting of the Glasair Super IIRG power by Renesis and RD1-C redrive, I&rsquo= ;re going to pull the redrive for its 25 hourly initial inspection.
>= >>>>>
>>>>>> Tracy deleted the damper = assembly from the last rendition of his design and I’m considering re= moving ours by creating a new adapter plate from the existing splined
&g= t;>>>>> part that is currently riveted to the damper and add= ing some longer bolts and spacers.
>>>>>>
>>= >>>> Has anyone heard anything further in regard to RD receives= with the damper removed?
>>>>>> Has Tracy given any f= urther updatess?
>>>>>> All I have read was after init= ial tests some years ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>&= gt;> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ste= ve.
>>>>> Best I remember is that you need either an alum= inum or steel racing flywheel, to get more mass on the engine side of the s= ystem.  IIRC, it's also limited to low mass (wood, etc) propellers. Th= e ones he sold had a different input shaft, but I think Dave Leonard modifi= ed his RD1-C & to use a steel racing flywheel which was only slightly h= eavier than the aluminum version. Search for Dave's posts, if he doesn't ch= ime in. I've been wondering if Guibo/Rototflex couplers could be a viable a= lternative to the aluminum plate/rubber discs. Probably would weigh more, a= nd definitely cost more.
>>>>>
>>>>> C= harlie
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>&= gt;> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software= .
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>&g= t;>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>= >>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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>>>> <= br>>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
&= gt;> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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