X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 864491 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:39:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.181; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id r10so1837016plx.3 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:39:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=uZREhIhnfUeUoV9jBJA/sO0V0DDHAS+KLSC+VUFci9s=; b=j0e31H/IJZmkCbAqaA1aJNje1pw1U6Us+fgnHnbT/t3LHeqLmr0n5N3WQNmDZD72ZY 5vWyXGBXEk731njQlFqOk0dCxfvWa5a+STGsp9Dc2l2KnjZIRJZwAZnhvTKwN1TWaIfA 1EtQo8Zy3Y+LmseTezKMrI1LIJ8os+LBJUXkl46jhoJQs/Q5r+jzC9n11Pfnz2by0NR0 91SGyzf/rVbCUh9c3wwQSv8bBbv/lraZ48YIg64LGQBnFNDyBJSZdjgDdmF8VJSczgRq gSEBmA/GWavIL1xrgLgOlrVuGNvSoe4Gs4zTRITxWzVApQrQ3uV4NnOCbk7tJgbSNU3q Cj/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=uZREhIhnfUeUoV9jBJA/sO0V0DDHAS+KLSC+VUFci9s=; b=eGplImsp6J5jz+AEVUYqugOKIQmQpxJBqRjfU0yGjlamFCWuSZLH9Oe1s+/suRF69I oj/F8jFR6evbe1uGwvGcAB2I45yIaScvHUjM8vSAl/f/FMoVkLH2AhWNoYSS+kD2MsCx 9hwAPhTYrTXdSh0wJz+Lcih+1HzKaOnxGZtNIDicG1P7D2/gmEu+W0IixVqNO0TOkoDi cy+5/xEdZH0gJDkNTPfKv3TZIX5BxiVkpakh8G7zbAWXqMDAC+YzBnNVJoMI7PR4Tk6H Jou0huYHmJ5Zkd1+2CPeFmdOPCvikPCq8n6ZThTCRWajuol7VshrF8WDYX9dauuLHwda rrZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530B7lL2tu/HmknQp5SBn0AdOm4pK9Iu9ipah+BRzI1ixSSS65/D VAdOBhmDd7uN4pAPfw5RlHKqF6yet6I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwTz9O9byjhS5aKNy1CsecPI6+HPIHFEcCtdqh5ib5K2MSBqOz3UKe8J5PWqPopCa1n3Zc88g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d20a:b029:d4:c79c:b156 with SMTP id t10-20020a170902d20ab02900d4c79cb156mr5064136ply.46.1603312779584; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u69sm3295913pfc.27.2020.10.21.13.39.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Oct 2020 13:39:38 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 07:39:36 +1100 Message-ID: <006a01d6a7ea$4b62a470$e227ed50$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01D6A846.7ED58D70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQDoPBoIOLwqoQkNI0CPlEsSy1H0eat/W67g Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01D6A846.7ED58D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mat, Sadly I also found that Paul=E2=80=99s 250 HP were only = ponies. Hence the turbo which I am still working on when time allows. = My estimate of Hp is just over 200. How is the exhaust noise? Any readings? Neil; =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:22 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning =20 Steve, what are your temps? In Florida, with outside being 90-95F I can = taxi all day long without overheating. On takeoff, I have to throttle = back after 1 to 1.5mins because my oil pan gets to 230F. Coolant out is = around 215F.=20 Cruising around at ~3000ft, 80F OAT @ 2250prop rpm. Oil settles to = 215-220F, coolant 185-190F. Maybe 140kts. My plane is slower and eats more gas to a comparable lycoming. Usually = they cruise at 180kts @ 8gph. I'm sitting at 168kts @ 18gph (not = verified yet). Haven't been past 5000ft yet to see the performance = numbers. I know my cowl needs a good redesign, intake probably doesn't = flow the best, oil cooler is too small, prop may be off. But so far, not = too impressed with the engine. I highly doubt the P-Port intake RX8 is = anywhere near 250hp like Paul said. I'll have pics/videos soon (this weekend) of plane and flight data, so = you'll see what I'm dealing with. - Matt Boiteau =20 =20 On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 2:38 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: Thanks Lyn So PP=E2=80=99ing a Renesis 4 port provide significantly better = breathing.=20 Is there a porting option for the Renesis 4 port that yields significant = improvement, say 10% hp or is there too little material to play with? Cheers Steve Izett=20 > On 21 Oct 2020, at 9:35 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com = > wrote: >=20 > A Periphery ported side exhaust is better than both intake and exhaust = being periphery ported. Neither the intake or exhaust port ever closes. = So, there is exhaust dilution of the intake flow based on the amount of = exhaust back pressure. Up to the point where RPMs do not allow enough = time for this to occur.Then it sort of steps up on the cam and the power = comes on as if by an electric switch. The full periphery engine tunes = like a dirt bike. The intake length and diameter and the exhaust length = and diameter tune like a trombone.=20 > A periphery ported 12-A can do 310 HP at 10,000 RPM. A 13-B can do 330 = HP at 10,000 RPM. We have to be under 105Db at 50 feet at full throttle. = The Renesis has zero overlap. But it had a Micky Mouse intake with 2 = different tuned lengths.=20 > There was a builder at Sun&Fun years ago who had a RX-7 transmission = for speed reduction. It worked fine. Later he had the idle too slow and = it shook the gears of of 2nd gear. I forgot his name but he died of = cancer. > LEH > In a message dated 10/20/2020 5:35:49 PM Atlantic Standard Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net = writes: > =20 > Mat, >=20 > It will only idle hot at that rpm. (1800). Cold it is = 2000 plus. Yes P ported and the advance seems to vary little from 20 = degrees. Running Fueltech ECU. And running cheapest gas.=20 >=20 > Neil. >=20 > =20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:38 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning >=20 > =20 > Steve =3D Using Megasquirt for ECU. How is your flight testing going? >=20 > Jeff =3D I meant prop rpm. Using Neil's PSRU, which is 3.17. I just = bumped up my idle to around 800prop (2500engine). I forgot to add, I am = P-Port which causes a need for higher idle.=20 >=20 > Lynn =3D Idle can be that high? Usually I see rotary idle around the = 10-18 range, but that is for a car. Little different with a prop on 100% = of the time. >=20 > =20 > Neil =3D That is a nice idle. I forget, are you P-Port? What is your = timing at? >=20 > Dave =3D 35 all time? Doesn't that seem really high for rotary. Pump = gas? Lynn was saying 24 degrees for 87 octane. >=20 >=20 > - Matt Boiteau >=20 > =20 > =20 > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 12:11 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: >=20 > Hi there Matt and all >=20 > What computer is controlling your fuel and spark Matt? >=20 > Ive left the timing of the EC2 on the Renesis 4 port at = Tracy=E2=80=99s default and haven=E2=80=99t changed it but was wanting = to do some experimenting. > I take it that the timing setting in the EC2/3 will vary the whole = timing curve over the rpm/load envelope. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Steve Izett > Renesis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On 19 Oct 2020, at 10:21 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = > wrote: > >=20 > > Split table. > >=20 > > - Matt Boiteau > >=20 > >=20 > > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 10:17 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com = > wrote: > >=20 > > What AFR and timing are people running for idle, taxi, takeoff, = climb, cruise, descent?=20 > >=20 > > idle =3D 11afr, 20 timing > > I seem to have to be around 11afr for it to stay alive. Still trying = to get it to idle around 600rpm, maybe bump it up to 700rpm to be = smoother without dieing and shaking apart.=20 > >=20 > > taxi / takeoff / climb =3D 13.2afr, 28 timing > >=20 > > cruise - not sure aft, 28 timing > >=20 > > decent - not sure aft, 32 timing > > Not sure what the plane likes. I tried 14afr, but the MAP really = get's low and engine shakes. Guessing it should be more rich? > >=20 > > I attached the timing table and split rotary table (second email). = Not sure how to tune timing, I just want safe values for now. > >=20 > >=20 > > - Matt Boiteau > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01D6A846.7ED58D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mat,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sadly I also found that = Paul=E2=80=99s 250 HP were only ponies.=C2=A0 Hence the turbo which I am = still working on when time allows.=C2=A0 My estimate of Hp is just over = 200.

How is = the exhaust noise? Any readings?

Neil;

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, October = 22, 2020 12:22 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Tuning

 

Steve, = what are your temps? In Florida, with outside being 90-95F I can taxi = all day long without overheating. On takeoff, I have to throttle back = after 1 to 1.5mins because my oil pan gets to 230F. Coolant out is = around 215F.

Cruising around at ~3000ft, 80F OAT @ = 2250prop rpm. Oil settles to 215-220F, coolant 185-190F. Maybe = 140kts.

My plane is slower and eats more gas to a comparable = lycoming. Usually they cruise at 180kts @ 8gph. I'm sitting at = 168kts @ 18gph (not verified yet). Haven't been past 5000ft yet to = see the performance numbers. I know my cowl needs a good redesign, = intake probably doesn't flow the best, oil cooler is too = small, prop may be off. But so far, not too impressed with the = engine. I highly doubt the P-Port intake RX8 is anywhere near 250hp like = Paul said.

I'll have pics/videos soon (this weekend) of plane and = flight data, so you'll see what I'm dealing with.


- Matt = Boiteau

 

 

On = Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 2:38 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thanks = Lyn

So PP=E2=80=99ing a Renesis 4 port provide significantly = better breathing.
Is there a porting option for the Renesis 4 port = that yields significant improvement, say 10% hp or is there too little = material to play with?

Cheers

Steve Izett =



> On 21 Oct 2020, at 9:35 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> =
> A Periphery ported side exhaust is better than both intake and = exhaust being periphery ported. Neither the intake or exhaust port ever = closes. So, there is exhaust dilution of the intake flow based on the = amount of exhaust back pressure. Up to the point where RPMs do not allow = enough time for this to occur.Then it sort of steps up on the cam and = the power comes on as if by an electric switch. The full periphery = engine tunes like a dirt bike.  The intake length and diameter and = the exhaust length and diameter tune like a trombone.
> A = periphery ported 12-A can do 310 HP at 10,000 RPM. A 13-B can do 330 HP = at 10,000 RPM. We have to be under 105Db at 50 feet at full throttle. = The Renesis has zero overlap. But it had a Micky Mouse intake with 2 = different tuned lengths.
> There was a builder at Sun&Fun = years ago who had a RX-7 transmission for speed reduction. It worked = fine. Later he had the idle too slow and it shook the gears of of 2nd = gear. I forgot his name but he died of cancer.
> LEH
> In a = message dated 10/20/2020 5:35:49 PM Atlantic Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>  =
> Mat,
>
>            =  It will only idle hot at that rpm. (1800).  Cold it is 2000 = plus.  Yes P ported and the advance seems to vary little from 20 = degrees.  Running Fueltech ECU. And running cheapest gas.
> =
> Neil.
>
> 
> From: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: = Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:38 AM
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning
>
> 
> Steve =3D Using = Megasquirt for ECU. How is your flight testing going?
>
> = Jeff =3D I meant prop rpm. Using Neil's PSRU, which is 3.17. I just = bumped up my idle to around 800prop (2500engine). I forgot to add, I am = P-Port which causes a need for higher idle.
>
> Lynn =3D = Idle can be that high? Usually I see rotary idle around the 10-18 range, = but that is for a car. Little different with a prop on 100% of the = time.
>
> 
> Neil =3D That is a nice idle. I = forget, are you P-Port? What is your timing at?
>
> Dave = =3D 35 all time? Doesn't that seem really high for rotary. Pump gas? = Lynn was saying 24 degrees for 87 octane.
>
>
> - = Matt Boiteau
>
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct = 19, 2020 at 12:11 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> =
> Hi there Matt and all
>
> What computer is = controlling your fuel and spark Matt?
>
> Ive left the = timing of the EC2 on the Renesis 4 port at Tracy=E2=80=99s default and = haven=E2=80=99t changed it but was wanting to do some = experimenting.
> I take it that the timing setting in the EC2/3 = will vary the whole timing curve over the rpm/load envelope.
> =
> Cheers
>
> Steve Izett
> Renesis 4 port EC2 = EM3 RD1-C
>
>
>
>
> > On 19 Oct = 2020, at 10:21 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> = >
> > Split table.
> >
> > - Matt = Boiteau
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at = 10:17 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> = >
> > What AFR and timing are people running for idle, = taxi, takeoff, climb, cruise, descent?
> >
> > idle = =3D 11afr, 20 timing
> > I seem to have to be around 11afr for = it to stay alive. Still trying to get it to idle around 600rpm, maybe = bump it up to 700rpm to be smoother without dieing and shaking apart. =
> >
> > taxi / takeoff / climb =3D 13.2afr, 28 = timing
> >
> > cruise - not sure aft, 28 = timing
> >
> > decent - not sure aft, 32 = timing
> > Not sure what the plane likes. I tried 14afr, but = the MAP really get's low and engine shakes. Guessing it should be more = rich?
> >
> > I attached the timing table and split = rotary table (second email). Not sure how to tune timing, I just want = safe values for now.
> >
> >
> > - Matt = Boiteau
> > --
> > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml
> > <split.JPG>--
> > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml
>


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

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