X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lj1-f170.google.com ([209.85.208.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 863047 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 09:22:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.170; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com Received: by mail-lj1-f170.google.com with SMTP id x16so2650770ljh.2 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:22:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=SHsFJvPCbxjtmA7dYEqkJUO+3m2ZusoR+hmyxexz+mI=; b=MNgPD9YbRXkc1Xc9LwGYNxwjhcLeM5ZiuzmponxTOIU6lvdoUJpTPFMQpUdUkIPQDA U2HCp14+a83EVCdrqxayPR0M2qB8ONaATKb/8LILA1VAg1qbS0oV3WGKlSG1rn4cPK41 sDXP1yNwCXKVqJT9z7Fw+dpOqxRULAiVZdEfNaJjE+J0LKxXZJWVh1b3MDF+xQjcW65a gLlJiFqq57yy6LAd4TV/M97IYKUA0SL6y6Ak0fGl79Xmg8sw18uCPCjd7/MVXt1S9xKX RB4ACkuhO0HJpH5mYHvSO3kjZci0zUsyV1kx3npWJqyfWkMn0gTxSj/Agwy4h80yPOqL ukZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=SHsFJvPCbxjtmA7dYEqkJUO+3m2ZusoR+hmyxexz+mI=; b=Q9LOSzfuyjGJKY3FVzzZZXZBYN7WTeBMEwemVk3UxZptlQn9HBoIlYJqE3LJyAOa5c Q5eC6DrzhXURpNMdgdBWB2TG+kUm6H5ebosjCagoVxCi0XKppScaun7x4pvE2ChVX97S ift64++ySQN/lqhsXCa6GuXJbF1ocLMbkHQK29VdXpBshqtQNKm3n1s3iaGg2tkN6x+7 wz+ZKYZii6f4jjv3V+Z3D/V7d199ojV1HZGg3MYUfusD+2KbkLg0JBeSbSJxxx34x2MW epjQErqHjLw9/cDft6O6ssBjMc1hywiqdrV5WSyEB34QhaOA0UPLazweZ76arioECe3E GhCw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5338CJhC15xMfP86lv1gqY5kCwpzYEfv77H2IzWQINR4KUmdbq3H LwhmgKrvaWePMvQq0IAKxhFF9K31c5lZKxanZu6Q6XhaRmc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyuy+boJ2JHY7qulTVR8ZAl9+HHgGBdBZ/q4c1cdQcK1joM6uChFKN74aUSpAdSM2Mj+7nxtEDmumRW66d5t+Y= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b014:: with SMTP id y20mr1473394ljk.362.1603286552919; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:22:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 09:22:20 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075c38f05b22e3dad" --00000000000075c38f05b22e3dad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, what are your temps? In Florida, with outside being 90-95F I can taxi all day long without overheating. On takeoff, I have to throttle back after 1 to 1.5mins because my oil pan gets to 230F. Coolant out is around 215F. Cruising around at ~3000ft, 80F OAT @ 2250prop rpm. Oil settles to 215-220F, coolant 185-190F. Maybe 140kts. My plane is slower and eats more gas to a comparable lycoming. Usually they cruise at 180kts @ 8gph. I'm sitting at 168kts @ 18gph (not verified yet). Haven't been past 5000ft yet to see the performance numbers. I know my cowl needs a good redesign, intake probably doesn't flow the best, oil cooler is too small, prop may be off. But so far, not too impressed with the engine. I highly doubt the P-Port intake RX8 is anywhere near 250hp like Paul said. I'll have pics/videos soon (this weekend) of plane and flight data, so you'll see what I'm dealing with. - Matt Boiteau On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 2:38 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Thanks Lyn > > So PP=E2=80=99ing a Renesis 4 port provide significantly better breathing= . > Is there a porting option for the Renesis 4 port that yields significant > improvement, say 10% hp or is there too little material to play with? > > Cheers > > Steve Izett > > > > > On 21 Oct 2020, at 9:35 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > A Periphery ported side exhaust is better than both intake and exhaust > being periphery ported. Neither the intake or exhaust port ever closes. S= o, > there is exhaust dilution of the intake flow based on the amount of exhau= st > back pressure. Up to the point where RPMs do not allow enough time for th= is > to occur.Then it sort of steps up on the cam and the power comes on as if > by an electric switch. The full periphery engine tunes like a dirt bike. > The intake length and diameter and the exhaust length and diameter tune > like a trombone. > > A periphery ported 12-A can do 310 HP at 10,000 RPM. A 13-B can do 330 > HP at 10,000 RPM. We have to be under 105Db at 50 feet at full throttle. > The Renesis has zero overlap. But it had a Micky Mouse intake with 2 > different tuned lengths. > > There was a builder at Sun&Fun years ago who had a RX-7 transmission fo= r > speed reduction. It worked fine. Later he had the idle too slow and it > shook the gears of of 2nd gear. I forgot his name but he died of cancer. > > LEH > > In a message dated 10/20/2020 5:35:49 PM Atlantic Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > > > Mat, > > > > It will only idle hot at that rpm. (1800). Cold it is 2000 > plus. Yes P ported and the advance seems to vary little from 20 degrees. > Running Fueltech ECU. And running cheapest gas. > > > > Neil. > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:38 AM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning > > > > > > Steve =3D Using Megasquirt for ECU. How is your flight testing going? > > > > Jeff =3D I meant prop rpm. Using Neil's PSRU, which is 3.17. I just bum= ped > up my idle to around 800prop (2500engine). I forgot to add, I am P-Port > which causes a need for higher idle. > > > > Lynn =3D Idle can be that high? Usually I see rotary idle around the 10= -18 > range, but that is for a car. Little different with a prop on 100% of the > time. > > > > > > Neil =3D That is a nice idle. I forget, are you P-Port? What is your > timing at? > > > > Dave =3D 35 all time? Doesn't that seem really high for rotary. Pump ga= s? > Lynn was saying 24 degrees for 87 octane. > > > > > > - Matt Boiteau > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 12:11 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Hi there Matt and all > > > > What computer is controlling your fuel and spark Matt? > > > > Ive left the timing of the EC2 on the Renesis 4 port at Tracy=E2=80=99s= default > and haven=E2=80=99t changed it but was wanting to do some experimenting. > > I take it that the timing setting in the EC2/3 will vary the whole > timing curve over the rpm/load envelope. > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve Izett > > Renesis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C > > > > > > > > > > > On 19 Oct 2020, at 10:21 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > > > Split table. > > > > > > - Matt Boiteau > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 10:17 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > > > What AFR and timing are people running for idle, taxi, takeoff, climb= , > cruise, descent? > > > > > > idle =3D 11afr, 20 timing > > > I seem to have to be around 11afr for it to stay alive. Still trying > to get it to idle around 600rpm, maybe bump it up to 700rpm to be smoothe= r > without dieing and shaking apart. > > > > > > taxi / takeoff / climb =3D 13.2afr, 28 timing > > > > > > cruise - not sure aft, 28 timing > > > > > > decent - not sure aft, 32 timing > > > Not sure what the plane likes. I tried 14afr, but the MAP really get'= s > low and engine shakes. Guessing it should be more rich? > > > > > > I attached the timing table and split rotary table (second email). No= t > sure how to tune timing, I just want safe values for now. > > > > > > > > > - Matt Boiteau > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --00000000000075c38f05b22e3dad Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve, what are your temps? In Florida, with outside being= 90-95F I can taxi all day long without overheating. On takeoff, I have to = throttle back after 1 to 1.5mins because my oil pan gets to 230F. Coolant o= ut is around 215F.

Cruising=C2=A0around at ~3000ft, 80F OAT=C2=A0@ = 2250prop rpm. Oil settles to 215-220F, coolant 185-190F. Maybe 140kts.
<= br>My plane is slower and eats more gas to a comparable lycoming. Usually t= hey cruise at 180kts=C2=A0@ 8gph. I'm sitting at 168kts=C2=A0@ 18gph (n= ot verified yet). Haven't been past 5000ft yet to see the performance n= umbers. I know my cowl needs a good redesign, intake probably doesn't f= low the best, oil cooler is too small,=C2=A0prop may be off. But so far, no= t too impressed with the engine. I highly doubt the P-Port intake RX8 is an= ywhere near 250hp like Paul said.

I'll have pics/videos soon (th= is weekend) of plane and flight data, so you'll see what I'm dealin= g with.


- Matt Boiteau


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020= at 2:38 AM Stephen Izett stephe= n.izett@gmail.com <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Lyn

So PP=E2=80=99ing a Renesis 4 port provide significantly better breathing. =
Is there a porting option for the Renesis 4 port that yields significant im= provement, say 10% hp or is there too little material to play with?

Cheers

Steve Izett



> On 21 Oct 2020, at 9:35 am, lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
>
> A Periphery ported side exhaust is better than both intake and exhaust= being periphery ported. Neither the intake or exhaust port ever closes. So= , there is exhaust dilution of the intake flow based on the amount of exhau= st back pressure. Up to the point where RPMs do not allow enough time for t= his to occur.Then it sort of steps up on the cam and the power comes on as = if by an electric switch. The full periphery engine tunes like a dirt bike.= =C2=A0 The intake length and diameter and the exhaust length and diameter t= une like a trombone.
> A periphery ported 12-A can do 310 HP at 10,000 RPM. A 13-B can do 330= HP at 10,000 RPM. We have to be under 105Db at 50 feet at full throttle. T= he Renesis has zero overlap. But it had a Micky Mouse intake with 2 differe= nt tuned lengths.
> There was a builder at Sun&Fun years ago who had a RX-7 transmissi= on for speed reduction. It worked fine. Later he had the idle too slow and = it shook the gears of of 2nd gear. I forgot his name but he died of cancer.=
> LEH
> In a message dated 10/20/2020 5:35:49 PM Atlantic Standard Time, flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net writes:
>=C2=A0
> Mat,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It will only idle hot a= t that rpm. (1800).=C2=A0 Cold it is 2000 plus.=C2=A0 Yes P ported and the = advance seems to vary little from 20 degrees.=C2=A0 Running Fueltech ECU. A= nd running cheapest gas.
>
> Neil.
>
>=C2=A0
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:38 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning
>
>=C2=A0
> Steve =3D Using Megasquirt for ECU. How is your flight testing going?<= br> >
> Jeff =3D I meant prop rpm. Using Neil's PSRU, which is 3.17. I jus= t bumped up my idle to around 800prop (2500engine). I forgot to add, I am P= -Port which causes a need for higher idle.
>
> Lynn =3D Idle can be that high? Usually I see rotary idle around the 1= 0-18 range, but that is for a car. Little different with a prop on 100% of = the time.
>
>=C2=A0
> Neil =3D That is a nice idle. I forget, are you P-Port? What is your t= iming at?
>
> Dave =3D 35 all time? Doesn't that seem really high for rotary. Pu= mp gas? Lynn was saying 24 degrees for 87 octane.
>
>
> - Matt Boiteau
>
>=C2=A0
>=C2=A0
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 12:11 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:
>
> Hi there Matt and all
>
> What computer is controlling your fuel and spark Matt?
>
> Ive left the timing of the EC2 on the Renesis 4 port at Tracy=E2=80=99= s default and haven=E2=80=99t changed it but was wanting to do some experim= enting.
> I take it that the timing setting in the EC2/3 will vary the whole tim= ing curve over the rpm/load envelope.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve Izett
> Renesis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C
>
>
>
>
> > On 19 Oct 2020, at 10:21 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
> >
> > Split table.
> >
> > - Matt Boiteau
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 10:17 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > What AFR and timing are people running for idle, taxi, takeoff, c= limb, cruise, descent?
> >
> > idle =3D 11afr, 20 timing
> > I seem to have to be around 11afr for it to stay alive. Still try= ing to get it to idle around 600rpm, maybe bump it up to 700rpm to be smoot= her without dieing and shaking apart.
> >
> > taxi / takeoff / climb =3D 13.2afr, 28 timing
> >
> > cruise - not sure aft, 28 timing
> >
> > decent - not sure aft, 32 timing
> > Not sure what the plane likes. I tried 14afr, but the MAP really = get's low and engine shakes. Guessing it should be more rich?
> >
> > I attached the timing table and split rotary table (second email)= . Not sure how to tune timing, I just want safe values for now.
> >
> >
> > - Matt Boiteau
> > --
> > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> > <split.JPG>--
> > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--00000000000075c38f05b22e3dad--