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Way back in olden times....Radial engines had a strain gauge rigged across the gap between the engine mount and the engine. Thus the amount of twist the engine applied to the mount through the Lord Mounts could be deduced. Thus total torque times RPM over 5252 = HP. The flight engineer could then tell the pilot about where we would crash, and phone for help in advance...........In C-119s.....A simple thing.
Lynn E. Hanover
In a message dated 10/7/2020 11:21:05 AM Atlantic Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
Check with (join) area EAA chapters. Our chapter has owned one for years; we also have a set of a/c scales. Charlie On 10/7/2020 7:49 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
Prop balancing was my first thought too. Engine will not vibrate unless you've got faulty ignition, intake problems or similar. I'm my RV-4 I won't have to torque down Berry mounts. I don't have any. Tracy talked me out of using them. That, of course, makes prop balancing essential. I'm currently fitting the spinner to the RV-4 -- perhaps a few more days. There's a place where one can rent a dynamic prop balancer for a week for $150. Perhaps we could share the cost? Finn On 10/6/2020 9:29 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
It's 42miles as the crow flies. I got the normal 25nm increased to 45nm. Now that I'm flying, I'll update the group on my progress. 8 hours in. I think the exhaust is shaking the plane, I was hoping the engine be a smoother plane ride. What do people torque down the Berry mounts to, really tight to compress?
Hey, I'm just a stone-throw away (9FL5). Surely your test area is includes that? You're welcome to stop by. Finn On 9/30/2020 8:59 AM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
Williston (X60 airport) I'll be there from Oct 3rd to 29th, to fly off my 25hours. So far I have 6 hours and had to increase my oil inlet duct size, and redo the exhaust so I could hear. We'll see what new bugs will pop up. I'll be posting a lot to keep people in the loop and help me along the way. If people want to visit in person to check out the setup and give me advice, I'm all ears.
Where in Florida? I live in Florida in the winter. Lynn E. Hanover
In a message dated 9/30/2020 12:48:34 AM Atlantic Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
I've been stuck in Canada far too long. Finally flying to Florida on Sat to see my plane and start flying off the hours (trouble free I hope) my email is my name (without spaces) at normal gmail dot com.
Matt,
Did you make it back to Canada in time for the first snow? I would like to discuss your MS install off list when you have time.
Bobby
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 7:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mufflers
Sadly, by the time the welder and I finished, I only got about 2 hours on the plane before I had to pack up my winter trip. I was planning to go back in March to FL (I live in Canada) to start flying off the 25 hours, but you know how that all went. So I'm just sitting here waiting for the borders to open up and fly my plane!
Early conclusion is it worked pretty darn good. I'd say I'm equivalent to an IO-360, maybe a tad quieter. Also on ground testing only, I quickly mocked up a long tube under the plane with holes drilled in it (with the end capped off), and it pretty much got rid of all the engine noise, only prop noise. Haven't flown with that yet. One thing I still want to do is test the backpressure. Making sure the CAN has enough holes inside.
The best price I found on 321 was from ProFabrication. I went with 2.75" 20ga (0.035") on the downpipe & outlet.
https://www.profabrication.com/index.php/products/straight-tubing/321-stainless-steel.html
I did use SPD Exhaust for the double slip joints at the primaries and downpipe. 2" 16ga (0.06")
http://www.spdexhaust.com/pdfs/22-23_Tubing.pdf
For the CAN, McMasterCarr 24"x24" 18ga (0.05") rolled into I think a 5 or 5.5" can. You can go heavier ga, I just guessed.
https://www.mcmaster.com/1754T51/
I’m at the exhaust header stage in my S21 FWF build. I’m considering a traditional header, 3-1 merge collector with 1.75” primaries to a 2.5” tube. I’m trying to be very weight conscious and looking for possible alternatives. The CA manifold can likely be built for nearly the same weight as the header design in the picture. I’m a little concerned with the tangential design. Mark S built and tested one on his 20B. It ran hot and caused the outer water jacket seals to fail. Mark was not running a wideband so he couldn’t see a clear relationship between F/A and EGT’s. He may have be running at or near peak EGT’s. EGT’s for the renesis can be kept to between 1500F -1600F with a little extra or a little less fuel. I will like install the coolant radiator on the belly so adding an external muffler would keep it off centerline.
I have located some reasonable priced Inconel 625 0.040 sheets. If rolled into a 5-6” tube, would this thickness be sufficient for a muffler shell or the CA / tangential manifold tube?
Matt,
How is your CA header holding up?
Thanks,
Bobby
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2020 7:53 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mufflers
Okay so after 2 full days of having our welder out, finally brought the CAD design to life. Except both days were all nighters, so I was too tired and busy to take 'in progerss' pictures. Was tricky to build, which made the hourly welding cost sky high, more then the engine itself. Hopefully that means I can save money in the future on hearing aids.
Thanks Charlie for the tip on the spectrum analyzer. I didn't get any before numbers, but it's all low Hz now. That harsh high pitch is gone. Db's are still there, but I'd say with just the muffler design, it's comparable to typical lycoming. I can start to hear the prop noise over the engine noise. I measured back pressure around 3.5psi @ 2200rpm prop.
I ran out of time to flight test the long pipe under the airplane. I quickly held it up with my hands and the exhaust pretty much disappeared with the prop taking over the noise. Before flying, I want to add backpressure gauge to that part and drill holes to find a balance between backpressure and noise.
SO the "header" muffler should make quite like any other plane, and the "under belly" pipe will make you standout in silence.
On 2020-01-18 5:29:51 PM, Matt Boiteau <mattboiteau@gmail.com> wrote:
Have started on the exhaust. Made all three primaries 2" double slip joints (that alone took almost a whole day with welder). The big can (CA - Centrifugal Accumulator) rolled into a 5" can and we'll secure it to the engine with straps.
The inside pipe is 2.75" which has an area of 5.94sq". I'm not sure if there's a magic number, but all the holes I drilled equaled to just under double the area (11sq"). Most are 3/8, but I did add some 1/2 to get the total area up. Could we get away with drilling less holes? Not sure. I'll be able to drill out one side end of the CA and pull out the inner tube and change out. Will experiment later with less holes and monitor back pressure. Will weld a npt bung on the CA and use the wideband bung to measure the different.
The previous exhaust with just an Aero Turbine 2525XL, measured ~113dBA. With nothing, was closer to 120dBA. Funny around 2000 prop rpm was louder then at 2300 full static.
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On 2020-01-07 12:19:23 AM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Okay I'll make all 3 primary tubes (2" diameter) all double slip fit. Welding batwing tabs (picture below) on to either side on the slips, will hold the muffler to the header but allow expansion.
Having troubles finding 2.75" bends in 321, so I might have to just switch to 3" downpipe that is more common. Vband clamp before downpipe for easier removal and under the plane to allow adding additional exhaust setups (long pipe with holes drilled in it, fishmouth tailpipe, etc)
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On 2020-01-03 4:22:18 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Mat,
As usual I have no idea. I made all 3 slip joints and to date no grief in that area. I am coming around to the stock manifold in some way. Yes it is heavy, but appears to muffle the noise as well. Know of 2 installations that use the stock manifold with a simple muffler after and both claim "acceptable" noise. It appears that the stock manifold has a big influence on noise?? Would prefer a DB reading, but if not available it is what it is. All is compromise, weight, cost, time, but at the end of the day it has to work.
Still working on the turbo even though the world is on holidays. All to save my hearing. So far the rotary is definitely "unique" as far as a turbo is concerned. The heat generated exceeds all else Two things to date -- special exhaust wheel and water cooled bearing body =, all for heat. Have modified the stock front plate on the renesis to take an electric water pump. That is the simple bit.
Neil.
okay I found a good company called SPD Exhaust. They have everything you need in 321ss.
With the engine being an RX8, we have three exhaust ports. Should I weld the front and back solid to the muffler, and make the middle one a slip fit for expansion? Or vice-vesa?
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On 2019-12-28 11:03:42 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I did something similar with my RV-3 13B decades ago. It split open at the welds around one of the pipes from the manifold into the the big outer tube True, it did use individual manifold base plates, not the connected factory manifold and the big tube was only 0.035.
Still, I would recommend slip joints on two of the three pipes, like I added on one of the pipes (cut through and a surrounding bigger pipe -- missing in picture).
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Can't remember why I went from the above to individual runners into a perforated pipe under the fuselage. Probably got lured by promise of increased power by tuned lengths and still uncomfortable by the muffler being inside the cowling.
Finn
On 12/28/2019 12:10 AM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
This is what I'm going to try in a few weeks.
"Exhaust valve opens and a pulse of hot gas puffs out through a short pipe, then tangentially into a cylindrical canister. Being tangential, the pulse flattens out and travels helically (rather than bouncing and reverberating around) along the inside curved wall of the can, spiraling toward the exit, where it comes out more uniform in flow and so pretty quiet."
Outer pipe = 321 ss 0.050 thick. Flat plate bent to a 5" tube
Inner pipe = 321 ss 0.036 thick. 2.5" diameter
(I might use 302ss 0.065 since I already have it)
>From my understanding, the area of the holes should be double the area of the inner pipe.
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