X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=EuKsUhUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=vwdcpL8KuDK7wHPZlXiaPQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=aRucP-wiG36XGvRKbqIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=EaYkU1pGYGAgPe7S8dQA:9 a=Ssuv9Tjhxp87ClrC:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-io1-f44.google.com ([209.85.166.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 666621 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 18:26:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.166.44; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-io1-f44.google.com with SMTP id h4so3869692ioe.5 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:26:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uQz7+2jjbGSWrsOOyAXDAi3P8DnnGZ5MTKB5Llw12Qw=; b=jLFglp6+zhq0PPTXWuDkp5CWwQxW8hwF9IKv8vapFmRezxb4KCfEKMOyPX0PnP79+m R80X6x5uG6lDMXAeHRByN3wVoh3VHKrty3ALo2HwdF3VfKyI8ImwSHVaY5mXZO+MiChp dQwYg8DKgscf0WpzHI1kFRvFbTCC+5QQARb9gijs2/ERlT7oY2P/ZyxxGAI7OigXtC/j vhSv8od0Byi95uFYn9pMG+v78q20k/YZ2zdj+2RTS08+1yXKx4gB10eF3eO+gLRcMOfL ccb3CBJD4Wwi2vJtLqzG0xceFt16+5rcn9QhSX+BltBqV/p8hcZdSX+5Xs9y0uDKzY0f P2fQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=uQz7+2jjbGSWrsOOyAXDAi3P8DnnGZ5MTKB5Llw12Qw=; b=D8ZcJYo/MpK2nzwfyAxq388WJBeoUB8lWV/suUcuAeUQvfBmZQ42JidRrSWAGVwivL jzyCpF+5cJqSTlLjgNngfHTOAETwapetsgKD++xc/4JbHPS640/2GuI+nGhXf1s9G89H Y+gtCmFMienj+gBihIqD/+ezvoI67xOOGUwVUWd1qRTqtXFo/9Dryg4uwrpnKDGgZwk/ 4L6fDAzgZuslxvXVTRQrbotOcHm+4YjC6/QIw4On9hjrKgMaXR5/N8zDDCHqY7WACh6a zBwmXAIe3Vwm7DUQLuLC64Jo9vxBVDmv9aPjO2gzQD09YjZX+T/ubIyEqL5ewn9uOjGQ NsHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328uJP5TXV1Jy/CGtTbkTKCJ2KeXj4+xytp6BZx7w8I4iQ1zC1U ko9K/HSxWIdLiD/7gFQgcsgQdnbxBBmxkeKLh5kgxuKJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxsFOf13QYl1hPtAPRIIvd6gm9P+QF/oiVViCRn2d956oc9uLc0NpgT6RdpEx3go73vxq81WYPVCcXIQCq/oJQ= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:bc82:: with SMTP id m124mr52907iof.172.1597962367072; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 15:26:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000040fdbe05ad569bee" --00000000000040fdbe05ad569bee Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know if this applies to Lynn's racer, but a ground bound track racer (actual road races; not Indy, or NASCAR show-racing) typically has a foot on the brake almost as much as on the gas. Radically different duty cycle. Charlie On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:08 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Lynn, > > I can relate to all you say having had the same problems > with hydraulics. However although I should know better than question you= r > advice,--- Is a 5/8 hole enough? The standard pipe is 1.3/8 inch whic= h > makes the 5/8 only about =C2=BC size without doing the actual maths?? I = can put > a restrictor on the outlet to the engine which will be the ideal spot to > put the Turbo return water pipe in as there will be a =E2=80=9Csuction=E2= =80=9D at that > spot. Lynn mate you worry me, but I have to bow to your experience, > > Thanks to all again, Neil. > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:49 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction > > > > -Cool the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You > want the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as t= o > avoid boiling coolant. Boiling point of coolant is a function of pressur= e > and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for racing up to = 30 > PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant temps and have the > engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached little cooling fins > around the back of the plug holes in the rotor housing. Others fly cut fi= ns > on a mill. But that just shows you that the biggest heat load is around t= he > plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes right between the plugs for even > better heat control. Do not change the direction of the coolant flow, in = my > opinion. > > > > In 5th grade we learned that fluids are not compressible. True, but > coolant contains bits of air in bubbles that we cannot remove. So the > coolant appears to be compressible just like air. So, when we spin up the > pump it compresses to some extent the coolant it is pushing through the > system. So, in a closed system that means that the coolant on the suctio= n > side of the pump will drop to a lower pressure than that on the pressure > side. > > But low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavitation). Notice the > lower radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter than the upper > (Pressure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact same situation. = It > is then a universal problem with cooling engines. > > > > I use a 5/8" restricter in the at the top water outlet to the radiator to > keep that hole as the primary limit to flow rather than have the radiator > or engine internals be the primary limit. This makes the engine internals > operate at the highest pressure in the system. And reduces the pressure > drop in front of the pump. At first I just replaced the stock thermostat > with a restricter but later I welded the restricter onto the water outlet= . > > Many have told me that the wide open system will work better, but after > 30 years of racing with no cooling problems.........I disagree. > > > > Lynn E. Hanover > > > > In a message dated 8/20/2020 4:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > > > Hi Neil. > > > > Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues: > > 1. Energy transfer down due to delta T being lower, increasing the danger > of nucleate boiling near the plugs > > 2. Creating a higher differential between the hot and cold sides of the > engine producing increased expansion differences across the engine. > > > > Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My > guess is that they don=E2=80=99t. > > If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help with the physical layout to = suck the > water through rather than push it through? > > > > Cheers > > > > Steve Izett > > > > > On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > > > Gents, > > > Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump. Th= e > simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard pump. I do understan= d > the hot side and the colder side but with the water being changes every 1= - > 2 seconds, does this really matter? > > > Thoughts? > > > Neil. > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --00000000000040fdbe05ad569bee Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't know if this applies to Lynn's racer, but a g= round bound track racer (actual road races; not Indy, or NASCAR show-racing= ) typically has a foot on the brake almost as much as on the gas. Radically= different duty cycle.

Charlie

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:08 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Lynn,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I can relate to all you say having had the same probl= ems with hydraulics.=C2=A0 However although I should know better than quest= ion your advice,---=C2=A0 Is a =C2=A05/8 =C2=A0hole enough?=C2=A0 The stand= ard pipe is 1.3/8 inch which makes the 5/8 only about =C2=BC size without d= oing the actual maths??=C2=A0 I can put a restrictor on the outlet to the e= ngine which will be the ideal spot to put the Turbo return water pipe in as= there will be a =E2=80=9Csuction=E2=80=9D at that spot.=C2=A0 Lynn mate yo= u worry me, but I have to bow to your experience,

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks to all again,=C2=A0 Neil.=

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancair= online.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:49 PM
<= b>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction

=C2=A0

-= Cool the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You wan= t the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as to avo= id boiling coolant.=C2=A0 Boiling point of coolant is a function of pressur= e and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for racing up to = 30 PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant temps and have th= e engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached little cooling fins a= round the back of the plug holes in the rotor housing. Others fly cut fins = on a mill. But that just shows you that the biggest heat load is around the= plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes right between the plugs for even bett= er heat control. Do not change the direction of the coolant flow, in my opi= nion.

=C2=A0<= u>

In 5th grade we learned tha= t fluids are not compressible. True, but coolant contains bits of air in bu= bbles that we cannot remove. So the coolant appears to be compressible just= like air. So, when we spin up the pump it compresses to some extent the co= olant it is pushing through the system.=C2=A0 So, in a closed system that m= eans that the coolant on the suction side of the pump will drop to a lower = pressure than that on the pressure side.

But low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavit= ation). Notice the lower radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter=C2= =A0than the upper (Pressure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact = same situation. It is then a universal problem with cooling engines.=

=C2=A0

I use a 5/8" restricter in the at = the top water outlet to the radiator to keep that hole as the primary limit= to flow rather than have the radiator or engine internals be the primary l= imit. This makes the engine internals operate at the highest pressure in th= e system. And reduces the pressure drop in front of the pump. At first I ju= st replaced the stock thermostat with a restricter but later I welded the r= estricter onto the water outlet.

=C2=A0 Many have told me that the wide open system will work b= etter, but after 30 years of racing with no cooling problems.........I disa= gree.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Lynn E. Hanover

=C2=A0

In a message dated 8/20/2020 4:11= :04 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: <= /p>

=C2=A0

Hi Neil.

=

=C2=A0

Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues:=

1. Energy transfer down due to de= lta T being lower, increasing the danger of nucleate boiling near the plugs=

2. Creating a higher di= fferential between the hot and cold sides of the engine producing increased= expansion differences across the engine.

=C2=A0

Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My gue= ss is that they don=E2=80=99t.

If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help with the physical layou= t to suck the water through rather than push it through?

<= /div>

=C2=A0

Cheers

<= u>=C2=A0

Steve Izett=

=C2=A0

=

> On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net> wrote:

>

> Gents,<= /u>

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Looking today how to hook up my electric= water pump.=C2=A0 The simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard = pump.=C2=A0 I do understand the hot side and the colder side but with the w= ater being changes every 1 - 2 seconds, does this really matter?<= /u>

> Thoughts?

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--<= /u>

Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/<= u>

= --00000000000040fdbe05ad569bee--