X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=EuKsUhUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CfGu4IuVbUFoEaFtTlJPvg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=i6Bqcb2ERSiva61_3-IA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=n1YklaLJubsKJ44njHcA:9 a=YPXbhaTzlo9cKRp0:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 666547 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 17:44:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.169; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id v15so1768384pgh.6 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:44:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=JcthbNnx5RDq/7JP1JPH6IcfFob7shyAaCqevI8sAss=; b=oPsuso/HdynrGEj9D3rmfNd5C/9VcEQNh+cK/2nbIaP8dUAN1AKLG4KZUvJSUF4J2j au6TI9CGRAa3Jr3BFDNIbar5gLcbhLagEFQco5ApqZmNIaJ7RUBhQQvSSPJbyJesTA7i UJI9swuKIcxzDwSvMiWAjBkqfR/zaLdRgY//g3ef16doy0YCwIrw9FeKkWPbp7QjQSKV 8oNYriNII2o/S0GyF1/fzZr8RCZZbRrfyc233D8y45e49fvQ56xVS4BEzQRGf4ONe5s0 C5BLVMK7A37Diw9Bn6gqdKYD5dwLrWpX31oGnyFQ/Un/l252F4CdEDmtpJjYdmUVH8ya 47Sg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=JcthbNnx5RDq/7JP1JPH6IcfFob7shyAaCqevI8sAss=; b=Fj2J2OuVT0oLBkcoIsj4G1yxFA1iwv5z8dvjRGTKIvhub3y/EN3vfogc51uk5WwnNt VNwPiXU3FsuvBZII6VmX0tH+opZPhN4AW1LvLLH82gwLhXcG9dS7CTx9cRpGacVAK64y y0vKA+BCt7/nY0vnw3V4llXCKhXx0L46cEt2RSFVQu+1ILFX8a5CTQuFO6Kahps0hyIN m4L8wWCrNKQ0eicZiFqilLK4rO8/iGEC0i0TrV13VMWb/uO6pEdiBAMYFE8uBzAnyWCp XbWkowjBrcYPJDNjTYuXuHPS8D4EzlCiA0gn2fs9aitdUhP2FGbrJ2z+iHhkELZxdFV3 MTIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303uWNFS8yJeQ4O8CGkw8fckABStfQzP6YpqImtf/yJb4fWnT5c 2aqQkTXSUPmv+sihWgGQcuYDwAq6H/I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzxpcOWGtrxEZAwAVVicDxKlrLzLH6We4uCLS7mwV0Gj6vHGlNYgaI6h9UmWyT65AMRDBFClA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:5c8:: with SMTP id 191mr64778pgf.244.1597959846827; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:44:06 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r28sm15649pfg.158.2020.08.20.14.44.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Aug 2020 14:44:06 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 07:44:03 +1000 Message-ID: <005901d6773b$072b6ab0$15824010$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005A_01D6778E.D8D83E00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJrZoN6YLym/mms/SKcjGYnNOYg5qgXqL5Q Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01D6778E.D8D83E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, Yeah, dead right, Putting the water pump right at the = bottom of the engine for that reason. Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction =20 Neil, =20 If you're using an electric pump, the one change that should be simple = to do and would improve the system design is to move the pump location = physically lower. I'm working from a very old memory here, but IIRC, the = one real downside to the rotary's pump location is that it's at the top = of the engine. That means that if for some reason you start losing = coolant, the pump quickly loses its ability to move water. Again, if = memory is correct, with the pump at the 'bottom' of the system, you can = keep coolant flowing for a bit longer. It won't cure anything, but if = you have a pressure leak it might keep coolant moving long enough to = find a landing site. =20 I suppose it could have a slight benefit in the sense that it'll always = have at least a little bit of pressure on the inlet, which could = slightly reduce the risk of cavitation. =20 If my memory is defective, hopefully someone else will correct me. =20 Charlie =20 On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:55 AM William Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com = > wrote: The water flow direction is important, the standard takes heat from the = hot side and tries to keep the coild side near the same temperature to = avoid the engine "becoming a banana". The impeller type pumps used in = engines are primarily 'pushers' =20 On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:11 AM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = > wrote: Hi Neil. Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues: 1. Energy transfer down due to delta T being lower, increasing the = danger of nucleate boiling near the plugs 2. Creating a higher differential between the hot and cold sides of the = engine producing increased expansion differences across the engine. Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My = guess is that they don=E2=80=99t. If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help with the physical layout to = suck the water through rather than push it through? Cheers Steve Izett > On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: >=20 > Gents, > Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump. = The simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard pump. I do = understand the hot side and the colder side but with the water being = changes every 1 - 2 seconds, does this really matter? > Thoughts? > Neil. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_005A_01D6778E.D8D83E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Charlie,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yeah, dead right,=C2=A0 = Putting the water pump right at the bottom of the engine for that = reason.

Neil.

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, August = 20, 2020 11:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Water direction

 

Neil,

 

If you're using an = electric pump, the one change that should be simple to do and would = improve the system design is to move the pump location physically lower. = I'm working from a very old memory here, but IIRC, the one real downside = to the rotary's pump location is that it's at the top of the engine. = That means that if for some reason you start losing coolant, the pump = quickly loses its ability to move water. Again, if memory is correct, = with the pump at the 'bottom' of the system, you can keep coolant = flowing for a bit longer. It won't cure anything, but if you have a = pressure leak it might keep coolant moving long enough to find a landing = site.

 

I suppose it could = have a slight benefit in the sense that it'll always have at least = a little bit of pressure on the inlet, which could slightly reduce the = risk of cavitation.

 

If my memory is = defective, hopefully someone else will correct = me.

 

Charlie

 

On = Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:55 AM William Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

 

Hi = Neil.

Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues:
1. = Energy transfer down due to delta T being lower, increasing the danger = of nucleate boiling near the plugs
2. Creating a higher differential = between the hot and cold sides of the engine producing increased = expansion differences across the engine.

Question: Do impeller = pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My guess is that they = don=E2=80=99t.
If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help with the = physical layout to suck the water through rather than push it = through?

Cheers

Steve Izett

> On 20 Aug 2020, at = 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> =
> Gents,
>              =    Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump.  = The simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard pump.  I do = understand the hot side and the colder side but with the water being = changes every 1 - 2 seconds, does this really matter?
> = Thoughts?
>                =        Neil.


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