X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=EuKsUhUA c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=aWWV3YQPlde2aWtwFJzBmQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=XCnkGLEC4lIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=XHHIvjAJ6GB2rj-A2SAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=l2Hyx6BZIo9o6oAr:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic304-9.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 664417 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 09:48:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.128.32; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1597931321; bh=9NAG6skZpTWT13hx6Bcub7A+NY8IvYRjkCk2UuZfmCE=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=t9VB7c7HBxirAcYJ2lamo/rWNO0uvcF8ce0ZlJikHNm6ftnBpf22Og1u/ZW5uSzEhr1KeDWP5FUjif7J3uIigA26OF5OSZn4oYEI88pJvwPGgrqCLCHcdKGXPJaO0XpF15umfoBIhAiKAbw8ejGlbXDXZm5+J8N0Wf0P2O4fcGMj/VNGFavQ4t03zTw1sqiT25cWOqj5iteltOg5ICXDrD16FfvqC2iwKol6lNUdoyS5cJdqT6VAJEGaDC8qXq6IgeD3p0OHSlBRF3zex1w8xQT3uE7RUxGAjzk5v2uxnrTD0L6uUyGW4sC4KuE9Eiei9BDV/qIt6jW7z9BQGpS95A== X-YMail-OSG: v8a80EEVM1lnU.pEgLayd6GLAVhr.0nAjsHnYDE6gAhFpHX4B3lqzPpSdQVWAQ8 KY94JwYgT63vnsFSlfLCX_yAakigyWv7zhQ4rcPvJh754Wo_7IBYjLBunbC2hO1WTDauJWfzzoGs faZWbPUxTGm_E2AHRSVEk.MYHvy3rcTThDEvEje6DNJDT2LQjhLVzsswFxS.h4bfUncB.gB2CrU_ tyTYvO8dEyzj4hNBcUioGUYC5xkhvDgt.R5cAqBtbFoYKoW68f3j2sZEzU2DORHLonfaVYzR0B7G 8zR.zK22wKSGE7c.UhJriNVrnRAdsO4VIadjarWqJynmAQWtXN4NFQ6kgjzOPCoLofQxbrwcsdVF 0acsY7Yk36B_pPzt5RevCM_gPI8z68ONzbK0QvuhtA3kA9R9zHZo9K1xHnC8e5iWJdmytcr4kUva tgMqW3ILCzklnRbQ896NUHvzxnb92eS4Z51ErayZ9qe3L1oPwANwk9joiq1XnJ_GQDVwTM1myhjI Ynfsi1IJ7hi8f6eBX5nvDXpH1kkyep5pfNoy_dW969ipuL633N8UBtqoSDT1vZt_kxYbP1UK.aE0 yNOK6LrQbzeNT2WfdnFPuqU3JZb1R.MjsSImti_etqWYtcFmF835MfyVJMKsuRKveHV1tWvmUuov jZahNWi4_gcYL8oRRFBBaHCma66Far7gG0eegPQ1tJ06P0EEj9x7OOvc2pEwPtWgsVwtk349zxmf KqzTWl7uaHI4SYIUxE9Jj2ANuKpBdsbaqzR_W36ABm3xmXW7XMXsDr4Xew19RU1I2RI.Fb2aopRM Td0_R1ZQIHdF6QV5i_QF.HAPBk9wNqEhjMW5Deuu6lA.iBe39nKo.nIpV0bgx.E7Hxls1bgRI8Gr 9jQPqT91gTq7K7_EPlO5yK432qFdmwS1Pcs22gDhWgwDJhmiG6VSYSJ7ZnqgYQScRyFRJTjSv7ma vfRXVUJm5OWp7Dvps.5dv55uANgC4ubeZnyi7PKfH9_L2uw7i9AdKeoRSnsDz9FJJ2oF9VdR0WFR RgdL_vGaGqjd5PZmucI_JkdcpwyAhgMOOzBqJNO7tFn1KfRWS9o.Or4oDVKrELzJmOTEB0J6iJGS 94oB56JrEl3xg7leTq78nLxZJN4fefxEGH6u7kkbP9QZreve90Vci_BrLMU9OqQguGvXHCxKGMxN rKQM_wnqjdWIjx_yYMAxDKoqvjmIwWrCpPe12szG5oREEFWyJfTZEuOx8fk6d6BFGx3hNUaYKCIA sNFaU3DOSqD2islZpGz.KiXDwwazDzzqBbuh0RMFQ81FK0J_qDJI1aGs3Bx2VITJaNZjgZwXKihe nE6sTSMLVv9idulLQBjFJNlJ7398TskiTdH1t_vo- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:48:41 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2020 13:48:40 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1533750045.3704492.1597931320597@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water direction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3704491_665753125.1597931320596" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16455 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_252) Content-Length: 9199 ------=_Part_3704491_665753125.1597931320596 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -Cool the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You wa= nt the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as to av= oid boiling coolant.=C2=A0 Boiling point of coolant is a function of pressu= re and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for racing up to= 30 PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant temps and have t= he engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached little cooling fins = around the back of the plug holes in the rotor housing. Others fly cut fins= on a mill. But that just shows you that the biggest heat load is around th= e plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes right between the plugs for even bet= ter heat control. Do not change the direction of the coolant flow, in my op= inion. In 5th grade we learned that fluids are not compressible. True, but coolant= contains bits of air in bubbles that we cannot remove. So the coolant appe= ars to be compressible just like air. So, when we spin up the pump it compr= esses to some extent the coolant it is pushing through the system.=C2=A0 So= , in a closed system that means that the coolant on the suction side of the= pump will drop to a lower pressure than that on the pressure side. But low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavitation). Notice the lo= wer radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter=C2=A0than the upper (Pres= sure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact same situation. It is t= hen a universal problem with cooling engines. I use a 5/8" restricter in the at the top water outlet to the radiator to k= eep that hole as the primary limit to flow rather than have the radiator or= engine internals be the primary limit. This makes the engine internals ope= rate at the highest pressure in the system. And reduces the pressure drop i= n front of the pump. At first I just replaced the stock thermostat with a r= estricter but later I welded the restricter onto the water outlet.=C2=A0 Ma= ny have told me that the wide open system will work better, but after 30 ye= ars of racing with no cooling problems.........I disagree.=C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 8/20/2020 4:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Hi Neil. Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues:1. Energy transfer down due= to delta T being lower, increasing the danger of nucleate boiling near the= plugs2. Creating a higher differential between the hot and cold sides of t= he engine producing increased expansion differences across the engine. Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My gues= s is that they don=E2=80=99t.If this doesn=E2=80=99t matter would it help w= ith the physical layout to suck the water through rather than push it throu= gh? Cheers Steve Izett > On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:> > Gents,>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump.=C2=A0 The simplest= is to send the water reverse to a standard pump.=C2=A0 I do understand the= hot side and the colder side but with the water being changes every 1 - 2 = seconds, does this really matter?> Thoughts?>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Neil. --Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_Part_3704491_665753125.1597931320596 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-Cool the plug side first with the coldest coolant you can generate. You want the highest pressure available to be found inside the engine so as to avoid boiling coolant.  Boiling point of coolant is a function of pressure and temperature. So, you can buy radiator pressure caps for racing up to 30 PSI pop pressure. So NASCAR can run 240 degree coolant temps and have the engine last for 4 hours. In olden times we broached little cooling fins around the back of the plug holes in the rotor housing. Others fly cut fins on a mill. But that just shows you that the biggest heat load is around the plugs. Others put coolant feed pipes right between the plugs for even better heat control. Do not change the direction of the coolant flow, in my opinion.

In 5th grade we learned that fluids are not compressible. True, but coolant contains bits of air in bubbles that we cannot remove. So the coolant appears to be compressible just like air. So, when we spin up the pump it compresses to some extent the coolant it is pushing through the system.  So, in a closed system that means that the coolant on the suction side of the pump will drop to a lower pressure than that on the pressure side.
But low pressure in the coolant invites boiling (cavitation). Notice the lower radiator hoses on cars are larger in diameter than the upper (Pressure side) hoses. So in every car you see the exact same situation. It is then a universal problem with cooling engines.

I use a 5/8" restricter in the at the top water outlet to the radiator to keep that hole as the primary limit to flow rather than have the radiator or engine internals be the primary limit. This makes the engine internals operate at the highest pressure in the system. And reduces the pressure drop in front of the pump. At first I just replaced the stock thermostat with a restricter but later I welded the restricter onto the water outlet.
  Many have told me that the wide open system will work better, but after 30 years of racing with no cooling problems.........I disagree. 

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 8/20/2020 4:11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Hi Neil.

Two thoughts I imagine that might create issues:
1. Energy transfer down due to delta T being lower, increasing the danger of nucleate boiling near the plugs
2. Creating a higher differential between the hot and cold sides of the engine producing increased expansion differences across the engine.

Question: Do impeller pumps that we use suck and push equally well? My guess is that they don’t.
If this doesn’t matter would it help with the physical layout to suck the water through rather than push it through?

Cheers

Steve Izett

> On 20 Aug 2020, at 3:30 pm, 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Gents,
>                Looking today how to hook up my electric water pump.  The simplest is to send the water reverse to a standard pump.  I do understand the hot side and the colder side but with the water being changes every 1 - 2 seconds, does this really matter?
> Thoughts?
>                      Neil.


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