X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PLmf03/XISqa0a2yp/VmgA==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=Q4oOLLxqLvAA9y3XuqMA:9 a=abU0Q41FaD1_kjLG:21 a=tzE5qc5rm-HE3Kfz:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=1ekTt2Y2hBbpNFZEW84A:9 a=ewV24UTuMvzRxXWh:21 a=Kl2LWdfJ7dU5VLKw:21 a=683OV-4f_ZJzJP_y:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: " 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 612548 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 19:09:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.182; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id bh1so134959plb.12 for ; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:09:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=ZcHoSJXbviCjKp5aue2i5kLAtsnNwtrYWLVgNLNXLQE=; b=qIpcahXn28pyOmgLn6YZLULIldkHgbAfr2+7YniSwL0I0cjSax3RY7ow0MbgUBslvO M/fqafF8leBU7blXVWEqsn2Us3kS4fhgqqiCzbYzPbgYVxAvXbJ7maT1nxBv9M5qTbLv 0HzQnERxDupuh+XotE6Cp2fDkVrF00vJE8RsSsVFPVfOnIabB9TY22j2WMMVWI6OtvwW cjIkpR3sC3MP+1uEcXaIYGPdG/r7vB/6kWuyaj2kVCM4Lh7YrLaOGZNfPoyRUFGn0KOK nSZTUTyvQPv1PjbbkGAFWjwlX5ui+/SBALdFyksEbqGjMzptFc19EFOm2bCjEzyyT7UD +l9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=ZcHoSJXbviCjKp5aue2i5kLAtsnNwtrYWLVgNLNXLQE=; b=iNNAt1gAPtbbzOI9TsWy6bInfaU7PCGm4IGaZ40YYu1jXOorExK2O2Ll+0saV7GIN/ m37L59KGaWOk8nQqO3a0hl9t74d1evTHhrsDW/TbpGDSyjYy1J3m4Twyn5IYpQ5usVQl 0oCHt2GKztl2Rm2dyJxgRtdZIWE04AzQ2UtRUsyGI/v5bF34jngJ41LB5ITBqgXM52yL jN6dNeok3TuhENE2lTP00pTt8Qn0/ZpIbcG4bCpisSIP07qpNvbyqzUrfPEP75VhRedh IrrLC2gvPVjNmpChsflEVciz5eYATBlUUVJYu34WVZtGSxl2t3aQHWmh4/Z6OY4tvkIz otQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531lXIIXlBu7t7cr5rs7cKA8yXDykK4Y0Nx+PGfXb+HtifLFcpFV 318zeTtzZSa7ZNJYAn2FWNnycfHq X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEZ0QePsVQOiw3aOpONNx2KyGu/cOl6WSMlMNBx5r65MvQshysv+XeINlcV5wrdalNtg5ZVQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:f68b:: with SMTP id cl11mr3946865pjb.68.1596755364442; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from UserPC ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l4sm8081496pjr.46.2020.08.06.16.09.22 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Aug 2020 16:09:23 -0700 (PDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2020 09:09:20 +1000 Message-ID: <00d501d66c46$9f7788d0$de669a70$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D66C9A.712657F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIwH7cR+S+Wz4vvpd7HoR52jPLyGqh4TNeA Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D66C9A.712657F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd, Have finally located a turbo shop that can upgrade my = turbo. Have sent it to them for inspection / upgrade. Saving freight = from the US if successful. Called precision turbos. Seem to be a US = firm with a local branch. Hopefully I can get what I am after. =20 Neil =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 3:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft =20 Hi Todd, I dont think you will miss the AMU. It is easy enough to = change out the actuator. I have 2 turbos from BNR. In one I removed = the wastegate flapper all together and just left the hole wide open. = That gives me about 42" MAP at sea level and protects me from my lead = fist. Its perfect for my everyday flying. The other one uses the stock = actuator and will give me 45" at 10k density altitude. I call it my = race turbo. Nothing like raging around at Vne. Nothing like the gas = bill either.=20 =20 It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart. Bummer they dont do the = Stage 4 anymore. Seemed like a lot of work for them to do for 0.1amu. = Hopefull they still port the wastegate a little. =20 We definitely have to get together for a hockey game sometime. =20 Dave Leonard =20 On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:23 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com = > wrote: I ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine = the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to = save on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So = this means I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see = what I can do about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon = I'll have enough spare parts to build another airplane. As they say "ignorance is bliss", and I was content to think I was not = asking much of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry about it, but = again this list has proven its value as random info not even directed at = me has made me aware that at any given time my poor little turbo could = give up the ghost and leave me looking for a place to put down where = there are none. I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actuator, as the TurboSmart = controller will allow me to achieve more at the touch of a button. But I = may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I'll decide when I = receive it. Now I'm going to rethink my intercooler installation. I had recently = removed it as I didn't feel it was a very effective installation due to = space constraints and didn't think it was really doing much for me. I = now think it was doing more than I thought, but I now have an = opportunity with some space freed up to do a better install. Last year I bought a little bitty tiny lithium battery to replace the = big old lead acid battery. As it has some smarts on it, the first thing = it told me was that it didn't like being over on the hot side of the = engine, behind the turbo. So since it is so small and light, it was an = easy thing to move over to the other side of the engine, right beside my = primary alternator. So I removed the Vans battery mount and now have = quite a bit of free space in which to mount the intercooler, however it = will probably require some modification. This is all yet to be = determined.... Todd Bartrim =20 =20 On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com = > wrote: Hi Dave; Another question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the = wastegate that he provided? And what pressure is the spring? I told him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to = know what I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type = rather than a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with = a 14psi spring. I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as I have a TurboSmart = electronic boost controller which can give higher pre-programed = pressures at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressure signal = to the actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than what the = spring pressure is. One of my considerations for lower max boost pressure is that my = engine was not originally turbocharged so I have the high compression = 9.4:1 rotors. Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried to limit my = boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure. When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi without = detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the = engine to regularly. =20 Thanks, Todd =20 =20 =20 On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com = , > wrote: Hi Dave; I talked with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was = looking for as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should = have then said probably a "stage 1" would be good for me. But other than that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm = thinking that even though I don't feel that I have the demands that you = do, if I'm going to go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well = go for the "stage 4". The "stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room for = a larger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could = source those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know = enough about my starting point it's not very realistic to find the = finish line without a significant investment in time. So for the low = price of $1amu, I can have more than what I need. I'm also convinced = that paying the $0.1amu core charge is good value when you have to deal = with international shipping.=20 So I guess I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over = the edge and call him back with my visa#. If he had an "add to cart" button on his website I think we'd be past = this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey. =20 Todd (The only thing stranger than watching hockey in August, is that = there is less fans than my beer league games) =20 =20 =20 On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com = , > wrote: Todd, Thanks for that as was exactly what I was thinking. = Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2=80=99t = want the job. Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 each way. = Makes the $100 cheap. Will contact them, and see what eventuates as way = down the path of fitting the stock turbo, really do not want to start = again. Done that too many times before. Thanks, Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft =20 Hi Neil; I talked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said = it was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe = later this fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he = could just get one there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. = That's kinda a no-brainer, because it would cost me that much to ship = mine down to him. Then I'm only paying shipping one way. So for you that would make even more sense.=20 Todd Bartrim =20 =20 On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Dave and all, Finally great advice that I cannot get = anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the phone line = goes dead. The oil cut off is great as well for I have personal = experience with a turbo failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would not = believe the amount of oil that can fit into an exhaust! That took more = time to clean than replacing the turbo-- all 5 gallons of it. =20 Will see what I can source here in OZ as to a turbo , as the freight = both ways to the US is murderous. Happy with the mod cost which will = be $1300 Oz dollars. Still a cheap turbo. Freight I am guessing will = be another $300 at least. =20 Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft =20 Hi Dave; What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? =20 Todd Bartrim =20 =20 On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com = > wrote: Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. =20 Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its = proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be = giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that = perhaps you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you = are not going to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target = and a plan to achieve it. =20 =20 The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b = it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short = bursts. I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock turbo = to see what I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo = lasted for about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the = impeller was running over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 = hours. It probably only lasted that long because most of the time I was = not running full power. The turbo imploded on my first long cross = country. I was almost home and decided to let it loose a little. I was = running about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing = that. =20 My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a = shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in my = installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into the = exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you = can get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long = as you need. =20 Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that are = realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want to = fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste = various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the = internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. = Try to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying = away from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. = You will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and = readily available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong = in an aircraft. =20 Best, Dave Leonard =20 On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = > wrote: Group, I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I = settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as = to not get into=20 any overspeed problems..........FWIW =20 http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 =20 =20 Kelly troyer =20 On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Dave, Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the = upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock = Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation? Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft =20 James, I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also have = options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ Cost is $950 for the = level 4 upgrade. Makes a nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about = Turbo maps that you can find in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or = TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level. =20 Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate = various parameters in selecting a turbo. =20 Dave Leonard =20 On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: James, 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. = Think they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the = world trying to get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not = exist if you talk to drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. = Bought 2 hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other = will need bearings. There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight = only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much = to go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler = that may fit. Best, Neil. =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft =20 Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and = size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience = is appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from = aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage = for turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01D66C9A.712657F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Have finally located a turbo shop that can = upgrade my turbo.=C2=A0 Have sent it to them for inspection / = upgrade.=C2=A0 Saving freight from the US if successful.=C2=A0 Called = precision turbos.=C2=A0 Seem to be a US firm with a local branch.=C2=A0 = Hopefully I can get what I am after.

 

Neil

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, August 7, = 2020 3:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

 

Hi = Todd,  I dont think you will miss the AMU. It is easy enough to = change out the actuator.  I have 2 turbos from BNR.  In one I = removed the wastegate flapper all together and just left the hole wide = open.  That gives me about 42" MAP at sea level and protects = me from my lead fist.  Its perfect for my everyday flying.  = The other one uses the stock actuator and will give me 45" at 10k = density altitude.  I call it my race turbo.   Nothing like = raging around at Vne.  Nothing like the gas bill = either. 

 

It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart.  = Bummer they dont do the Stage 4 anymore.  Seemed like a lot of work = for them to do for 0.1amu.  Hopefull they still port the wastegate = a little.

 

We definitely have to get together for a hockey game = sometime.

 

Dave Leonard

 

On = Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:23 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I = ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine = the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to = save on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So = this means I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see = what I can do about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty = soon I'll have enough spare parts to build another = airplane.

 

Hi = Dave;

  Another question = for you about your wastegate. Are you using the wastegate that he = provided? And what pressure is the spring?

  I told him I would rather use my own wastegate, = but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I told him it = was a piston type rather than a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd = want to use his with a 14psi spring.

I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as I = have a TurboSmart electronic boost controller which can give higher = pre-programed pressures at the touch of a button, by venting the boost = pressure signal to the actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower = than what the spring pressure is.

  One of my considerations for lower max boost = pressure is that my engine was not originally turbocharged so I have the = high compression 9.4:1 rotors.

  Fot that reason I've always been conservative = and tried to limit my boost to 6psi, which is my current spring = pressure.

  When my = original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi without = detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the = engine to regularly.

 

Thanks, Todd

 

 

 

On = Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Hi = Dave;

   I talked with = BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was looking for as he = started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should have then = said probably a "stage 1" would be good for = me.

  But other than = that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm thinking that even = though I don't feel that I have the demands that you do, if I'm going to = go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well go for the = "stage 4".

   The "stage 4" involves = machining the exhaust housing to make room for a larger turbine wheel = while the others don't. So I wonder if I could source those other items = and do this myself. But as I don't even know enough about my starting = point it's not very realistic to find the finish line without a = significant investment in time. So for the low price of $1amu, I can = have more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying the $0.1amu = core charge is good value when you have to deal with international = shipping. 

So I guess = I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over the edge = and call him back with my visa#.

  If he had an "add to cart" button on = his website I think we'd be past this point after a few beers watching = playoff hockey.

 

 Todd

     (The only thing stranger than = watching hockey in August, is that there is less fans than my beer = league games)

 

 

 

On = Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Todd,

          =       Thanks for that as was exactly what I was = thinking.  Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or = don=E2=80=99t want the job.  Freight listed to the US and back can = be $300 each way.  Makes the $100 cheap.  Will contact them, = and see what eventuates as way down the path of fitting the stock turbo, = really do not want to start again.  Done that too many times = before.

Thanks,  Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

 <= /o:p>

Hi = Neil;

  I = talked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said it = was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe later = this fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he could = just get one there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. That's = kinda a no-brainer, because it would cost me that much to ship mine down = to him. Then I'm only paying shipping one = way.

  =  So for you that would make even more sense. 

Todd = Bartrim

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

On Tue, Aug = 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Dave and all,

          =             &= nbsp;       Finally great advice that I = cannot get anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the = phone line goes dead.  The oil cut off is great as well for I have = personal experience with  a turbo failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you = would not believe the amount of oil that can fit into an exhaust!  = That took more time to clean than replacing the turbo-- all 5 gallons of = it. 

  Will see what I can source here in OZ  as = to a turbo , as the freight both ways to the US  is = murderous.  Happy with the mod cost which will be $1300 Oz = dollars.  Still a cheap turbo.  Freight I am guessing will be = another $300 at least.

 

Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

 <= /o:p>

Hi = Dave;

  What = did you use for a shut-off valve for your = oil?

 <= /o:p>

Todd = Bartrim

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

On Mon, Aug = 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Kelly, you = are right.  I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post = above.

 <= /o:p>

Mark, its = not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its proper = operating environment for the conditions you are going to be = giving.  You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it = seem that perhaps you dont have a specific target in = mind.  Thats fine, but you are not going to land much above 180hp = unless you have a specific target and a plan to achieve = it.  

 <= /o:p>

The stock = hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.  It and the 2nd gen 13b it ran = with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short = bursts.  I did what you are thinking about doing.  I ran the = stock turbo to see what I would get.  I was making a little over = 200hp and the turbo lasted for about 70 flight hours.  = Looking at its turbo map, the impeller was running over 100k = RPM.  It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours.  It probably = only lasted that long because most of the time I was not running full = power.  The turbo imploded on my first long cross country.  I = was almost home and decided to let it loose a little.  I was = running about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude.  It lasted about = 30 min doing that.

 <= /o:p>

My advice, = if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-off valve on = the oil feed line to the turbo.  I now have one in my = installation.  When the turbo goes it will be = hemorrhaging oil into the exhaust.  Without a shut-off valve, = you will run out of oil before you can get very far.  With the = valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you = need.

 <= /o:p>

Play around = with that spreadsheet I sent you.  Make up numbers that are = realistic for how much boost at what altitude you = realistically want to fly, then find a turbo to fit those = parameters.  You can cut and paste various turbo maps onto the = spreadsheet.  They are available on the internet but most of the = relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet.  Try to keep the = turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away from the = 'surge' line.  Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible.  You = will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and = readily available.  You will also see that the stock T3 does not = belong in an aircraft.

 <= /o:p>

Best,

Dave = Leonard

 <= /o:p>

On Mon, Aug = 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Group,<= /o:p>

  =  I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I = settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine = housing so as to not get into 

any = overspeed problems..........FWIW

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 <= /o:p>

Kelly = troyer

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On Mon, Aug = 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Dave,

          =       Just how much extra Hp do you think you = got withy the upgraded Turbo?  I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP = from the stock Hitachi.  Am I off with the fairys having this = expectation?

Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

 <= /o:p>

James,<= /o:p>

I had my = stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars.  They also have = options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ Cost is $950 for the = level 4 upgrade.  Makes a nice tight fit.  I had a big = discussion about Turbo maps that you can find in the archives.  I = settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea = level.

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Attached is = a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate various = parameters in selecting a turbo.

 <= /o:p>

Dave = Leonard

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On Sun, Aug = 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

James,

  2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 = Todd  Bartrim and Dave leonnard.  Think they have the standard = RX7 Hitachi turbo.  Just been around the world trying to get an = affordable  turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk = to drag racers etc.,  Quotes between $4500 and $6500.  Bought = 2 hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will = need bearings.

          =       There was an offer of one in south Africa = for freight only.  Would be a bargain.  Just hooking mine up = now, but as usual much to go that I have not factored as usual.  = Finally found an intercooler that may fit.

Best,  Neil.

 

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

 <= /o:p>

Does anyone = out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and size) for a = 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience is = appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from = aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage = for turbos. Thanks, James = Whitehurst


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