X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Y+b99WSDUBXwRGtcog24Ag==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=clWgRNkZAAAA:8 a=mPpAlzoyAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=jThZ7_-JAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Yd4aAA7UYnqJS1yUG9gA:9 a=AYko0G0EoCDXb_-x:21 a=XsUOOPqc7SUfxLmM:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=-9v_JbDb-ZoA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=YlaDcnsHqZp8T_XRggkA:9 a=INeWguG-q6t7H36n:21 a=8vkZ1Idr41IGkgxB:21 a=mL_2ls4cOpzI_Ilf:21 a=ADxL5mFbLRUaZQ6BC-8A:9 a=yTUQGaM93CJ87D14:18 a=KQqxNPgzF0kA:10 a=VEiTNn8F7TgA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=SH4jnUAFaF2e01B4G311:22 a=c8bjAVVP6yRcgDy_Aagi:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 a=NVbvhy2gKIdozzgvQOKv:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com ([209.85.167.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 605054 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 18:40:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.172; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id l204so9076439oib.3 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:40:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=x4X+5eAjiOT8rvetOmvDlYb8PsI0PLYCNAz0EC0CfoQ=; b=Kbe0SDYd7jzDzLBCkDVEno4NIiJUOpA13wcAsA77qags4nBmNLJeXTJmbVBevw3TdR Moyq1yPbsJ+P7Mdy8bIoIHBRnNS93P8PwMaHt5PCn5xnfVVx77VobYPobd2Hcqtja86C 5na9NesqQNLw8JZvGQ44GhVriGXQcCNdsja3AT3y1yd4xOpbEylqZTSc9DoebNS6yhO4 idZIVSKsNqKj1fHKaveTEzaR/n3VCeNSzu6tjPx6qe56gmc6N0ZYeqQvmS8pE4hyszF4 rzRL/Lbv4YqbQ8E7WsQ9UCSqYsnr9TyGDfp/k0AwBljjqvmOf5b/m6P5uK3NC0M0ZEqZ Bf1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=x4X+5eAjiOT8rvetOmvDlYb8PsI0PLYCNAz0EC0CfoQ=; b=JTZzE7yHwpeanf5VYsvdsJ0c6bovEmdfH534LthzvVKl5Jqd2+OceZLtQp9p5OFYUH /eP/4qQuOjIDn1b03O6gear2/Z9utfqkKrFBHt0uuDxCLAcAEa5UPkr2vxPv1PZgZAgH WBuwjcOFd9tegG2AUkcDg9bqeCAmbHgpqBFWlVQQszROAMu14liMMsUKPdQ/Se21dVWs ALATmZ1g1iS1gfVJxOsZiGkpgqMbZcrO7eNvuqhjSbkUa2ZLZs+rNcw+YddbhCWzU8D5 LcQR89aDboDNVJ9jlbW88sAaBxKByZv1kkSoVy0wRGhwKG3SC+5B6w7zN9YWpjMle8U0 0mAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531OIrFp+Rnr84+RwpXjKbTAjx1onoY7gu5aAmkV1FW60j/rsgab VyvDndeRuYm91cWQky+daBLOWqlLMO2VdXc7cwgC1ocb X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOkeu4ps+/veaToiFgQ74MLHA86wPszQWB04JjWmL5QO03xD1HoU9CHoXD9tXonq3XRocXWcwIHeYeAY1P5fE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:cd84:: with SMTP id d126mr512489oig.42.1596580812757; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:40:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 15:40:00 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="00000000000033382d05ac14f0c7" --00000000000033382d05ac14f0c7 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000033382b05ac14f0c6" --00000000000033382b05ac14f0c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Those are some great data points Bobby. I think it shows that either of those compressors are a good fit. Note that 6 PSI is not a lot of boost for higher altitudes. That is not even turbo normalizing. If you are going to turbo, you want to normalize, plus a little bit. Say, 35"MAP at 18k MSL. That would increase your P/R to 2.5 or something, while keeping the mass flow less changed. At that working-the-turbo-hardest situation you would land near the upper end of the peak efficiency island of either compressor. Which is what you want. On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:26 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > I=E2=80=99ll muddy the water a little. This is a scatter plots for a TO-4= E-50 and > a GT3076R 56 trim. The plots shows extreme operating conditions at > altitude. PR remained 2.0 or lower. I purchased the GT 3076R with a Tial > 1.06 housing for the RV10. I=E2=80=99m a little bummed I can=E2=80=99t us= e it for the Rans > S21 even for a muffler. FWF weight limit is 350# and I=E2=80=99m hoping t= o use a > constant speed prop. > > > > Bobby > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2020 2:58 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > Hi Todd, > > In that spreadsheet there is a stack of turbine maps laid on top of each > other. you can right click, stack, "send to back" to see some of the oth= er > maps. I was told that the T3-50Trim was very close to the stock Hitachi. > Good average numbers for our use would be a P/R of 2.0 to 2.5 and a "mass= " > flow (at sea level) of about 30 lbs/min. The best compressors seem to be > the TO4 - with trim of 40-60. The TO4 E50 seems about perfect. > > > > You can send your old core to BNR Supercars. For about $1 AMU (Aviation > Monetary Unit) they will bore out the turbine housing and install a TO4 > turbine wheel (ask for an aggressive trim/clip). They enlarge > the wastegate hole and install a 360 degree bearing, install the compress= or > of your choice and matching new compressor housing. Also, you can upgrad= e > the wastegate actuator if you want. There will be almost nothing left of > your core except the turbine housing that fits into the stock location. > Its an excellent solution I highly recommend. They may try to talk you > into a smaller turbo, but only because they dont understand high altitude > applications. Also, we don't care about spool up time. > > > > Check our their website, BNRsupercars > > > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:32 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Thanks for sharing that spreadsheet Dave. It has been an educational tool= . > When I first built and got this stock turbo, I did buy a couple of > recommended books on turbocharging, but due to a shortage of time and > resources I really didn't pay them as much attention as I should've. > Instead I just told myself that I wasn't going to be a Reno racer and I > just wanted to use it to get off the ground quickly and to give me a litt= le > safety margin flying in mountain valleys. > > But with the abundance of good YouTube videos and tools such as this > spreadsheet available today, it is pretty easy to see that even when I'm > taking it easy, I'm still asking alot of this turbo. About 2 years ago, > nearing the end of one short (40 minute) but fast speed run I did have a > low sump oil alarm come on and I'd already noticed a lower than normal oi= l > pressure. I landed at my home airport without issue. This was before I'd > installed a orfice restriction in the turbo oil feed line. On an inspecti= on > the next day, I found a little excess play on the turbo shaft. I just > chalked this up to normal wear and tear as the turbo had never been > rebuilt, so I ordered a rebuild kit and oil usage and pressure have > returned to normal. > > There are some things that I don't know about my turbo, such as the > compressor wheel trim size so I'll have to take it apart to measure this. > So I'm not certain exactly which compressor map I should be using. Howeve= r, > playing with this spreadsheet has shown that I'm clearly running in the > "choke zone" regardless of which T3 map table I use. This is certainly no= t > acceptable to continue on this path, so I'm beginning to dive a little > deeper into this to find affordable options to improve this. > > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:46 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Thanks Dave; > > I was expecting that you would've had something a little more > purpose-built for the task, however the fact that you accomplished that > with an industrial solenoid valve is interesting. It looks like they have= a > minimum size of 1/4" NPT, with a 1/8' port size. > > I was thinking of using one of these > https://www.macvalves.com/product/35-series/ > > [image: image.png] > > I have a few of these as we used to use these in an effluent sampling > system but we have now changed to a different system so no longer use the= m. > This is the same valve used by my TurboSmart electronic boost controller > and are available cheap on Amazon. It is a 3-way valve but a pipe plug in > port #1 will make it a 2-way NO valve. > > They are designed for air use, but are tolerant of lube service, and usin= g > it as a safety shut off valve, will subject it to almost zero cycles (oth= er > than test), so it won't see much wear. > > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:37 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > I did a google search. there was a company in FL that made valves to > spec. I got a normally open, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant > innards and NPT fittings. cost about $120 at the time. Cant remember th= e > name of the company.... > > > > Here it is: > > http://www.jeffersonvalves.com/inicio.asp?sec=3Di&lang=3Dleng > They are not really set up for the small guy, but they were nice enough t= o > me. Special order, took a couple of weeks. > > > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:42 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Dave; > > What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? > > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. > > > > Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its > proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be > giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perhaps > you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not goi= ng > to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan to > achieve it. > > > > The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b it > ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts. > I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock turbo to see wh= at > I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo lasted for > about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impeller was runnin= g > over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. It probably onl= y > lasted that long because most of the time I was not running full power. > The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I was almost home and > decided to let it loose a little. I was running about 30" MAP at 17.5k > altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. > > > > My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-of= f > valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in my > installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into the > exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you ca= n > get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you > need. > > > > Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that are > realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want to > fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste > various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the > internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. Try > to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away > from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. You wi= ll > find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily > available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an > aircraft. > > > > Best, > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Group, > > I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I > settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as = to > not get into > > any overspeed problems..........FWIW > > > > http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 > > > > Kelly troyer > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Dave, > > * Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the > upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock > Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation?* > > *Neil.* > > > > *From:* > > > * Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AMTo: > Rotary motors in aircraft >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's i= n > aircraft* > > > > *James,* > > *I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also have > options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ > Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade. Makes a > nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about Turbo maps that you can fin= d > in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp > at sea level.* > > > > *Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate > various parameters in selecting a turbo.* > > > > *Dave Leonard* > > > > *On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <12348ung@gmail.com> > > wrote:* > > *James,* > > * 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. Th= ink they > have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the world trying t= o > get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk = to > drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bought 2 hitachi turb= os > for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearings.* > > * There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight > only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much t= o > go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler that > may fit.* > > *Best, Neil.* > > > > > > *From:* > > > * Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AMTo: > Rotary motors in aircraft >Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in > aircraft* > > > > *Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and > size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience i= s > appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from > aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for > turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst* > > > > > > > *Disclaimer* > > The information contained in this communication from the sender is > confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others > authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby > notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in > relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and m= ay > be unlawful. > > This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been > automatically archived by *Mimecast Ltd*, an innovator in Software as a > Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a *safer* and *more useful* place > for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and > compliance. To find out more Click Here > . > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --00000000000033382b05ac14f0c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Those are some great data points Bobby.=C2=A0I think it sh= ows that either=C2=A0of those compressors are a good fit.=C2=A0 Note that 6= PSI is not a lot of boost for higher altitudes.=C2=A0 That is not even tur= bo normalizing.=C2=A0 If you are going to turbo, you want to normalize, plu= s a little bit.=C2=A0 Say, 35"MAP at 18k MSL.=C2=A0 That would increas= e your P/R to 2.5 or something, while keeping the mass flow less changed.= =C2=A0 At that working-the-turbo-hardest situation you would land near the = upper end of the peak efficiency island of either compressor.=C2=A0 Which i= s what you want.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:26 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I=E2=80=99ll muddy the water a little. This is a scatter plots for a TO= -4E-50 and a GT3076R 56 trim. The plots shows extreme operating conditions = at altitude. PR remained 2.0 or lower.=C2=A0 I purchased the GT 3076R with = a Tial 1.06 housing for the RV10. I=E2=80=99m a little bummed I can=E2=80= =99t use it for the Rans S21 even for a muffler. FWF weight limit is 350# a= nd I=E2=80=99m hoping to use a constant speed prop.

=C2=A0

Bobby

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircr= aft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 202= 0 2:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Hi = Todd,

In that spreadshee= t there is a stack of turbine maps laid on top of each other.=C2=A0 you can= right click, stack,=C2=A0"send to back" to see some of the other= maps.=C2=A0 I was told that the T3-50Trim was very close to the stock Hita= chi.=C2=A0 Good average numbers for our use would be a P/R of 2.0 to 2.5 an= d a "mass" flow (at sea level) of about 30 lbs/min.=C2=A0 The bes= t compressors seem to be the TO4 - with=C2=A0 trim of 40-60.=C2=A0 The TO4 = E50=C2=A0 seems about perfect.

=C2=A0

You can se= nd your old core to BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 For about $1 AMU (Aviation Monetar= y Unit) they will bore out the turbine housing and install a TO4 turbine wh= eel (ask for an aggressive trim/clip).=C2=A0 They enlarge the=C2=A0wastegat= e hole=C2=A0and=C2=A0install a 360 degree bearing, install the compressor o= f your choice and matching new compressor housing.=C2=A0 Also, you can upgr= ade the wastegate actuator if you want.=C2=A0There will be almost nothing l= eft of your core except the turbine housing that fits into the stock locati= on.=C2=A0 Its an excellent solution I highly recommend.=C2=A0 They may try = to talk you into a smaller turbo, but only because they dont understand hig= h altitude applications.=C2=A0 Also, we don't care about spool up time.= =C2=A0

=C2=A0=

Check our their website,=C2=A0 BN= Rsupercars

=C2=A0=

Dave Leonard

=

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:32 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:

Thanks for sharing that spreadsheet Dave. It has b= een an educational tool. When I first built and got this stock turbo, I did= buy a couple of recommended books on turbocharging, but due to a shortage = of time and resources I really didn't pay them as much attention as I s= hould've. Instead I just told myself that I wasn't going to be a Re= no racer and I just wanted to use it to get off the ground quickly and to g= ive me a little safety margin flying in mountain valleys.

=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0But with the abundance of good You= Tube videos and tools such as this spreadsheet available today, it is prett= y easy to see that even when I'm taking it easy, I'm still asking a= lot=C2=A0of this turbo. About 2 years ago, nearing the end of one short (40= minute) but fast speed run I did have a low sump oil alarm come on and I&#= 39;d already noticed a lower than normal oil pressure. I landed at my home = airport without issue. This was before I'd installed a orfice=C2=A0rest= riction in the turbo oil feed line. On an inspection the next day, I found = a little excess play on the turbo shaft. I just chalked this up to normal w= ear and tear as the turbo had never been rebuilt, so I ordered a rebuild ki= t and oil usage and pressure have returned to normal.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are some things that I don= 't know about my turbo, such as the compressor wheel=C2=A0trim size so = I'll have to take it apart to measure this. So I'm not certain exac= tly which compressor map I should be using. However, playing with this spre= adsheet has shown that I'm clearly running in the "choke zone"= ; regardless of which T3 map table I use. This is certainly not acceptable = to continue on this path, so I'm beginning to dive a little deeper into= this to find affordable options to improve this.

=C2=A0

Todd Bartrim

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4,= 2020 at 10:46 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thank= s Dave;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I was exp= ecting that you would've had something a little more purpose-built for = the task, however the fact that you accomplished that with an industrial so= lenoid valve is interesting. It looks like they have a minimum size of 1/4&= quot; NPT, with a 1/8' port size.

I was thinking of using one of these=C2=A0https://www.macval= ves.com/product/35-series/

3D"ima=

I h= ave a few of these as we used to use these in an effluent sampling system b= ut we have now changed to a different system so no longer use them. This is= the same valve used by my TurboSmart electronic boost controller and are a= vailable cheap on Amazon. It is a 3-way valve but a pipe plug in port #1 wi= ll make it a 2-way NO valve.

They are designed for air use, but are tolerant of lube service, and u= sing it as a safety shut off valve, will subject it to almost zero cycles (= other than test), so it won't see much wear.

=C2= =A0

Todd Bartr= im

=C2=A0<= u>

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:37 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com &= lt;flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I did a google search.=C2=A0 t= here was a company in FL that made valves to spec.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I got a norm= ally open, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant innards and NPT fittings.= =C2=A0 cost about $120 at the time.=C2=A0 Cant remember the name of the com= pany....

=C2=A0

Here it is:

http://www.jeffersonval= ves.com/inicio.asp?sec=3Di&lang=3Dleng
They are not really set u= p for the small guy, but they were nice enough to me.=C2=A0 Special order, = took a couple of weeks.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Dave Leona= rd

=C2=A0<= u>

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:42 PM = Todd Bartrim bartrim= @gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=

Hi Dave;

=C2=A0 What did you use for a shut-off valve = for your oil?

=C2= =A0

Todd Bartrim=

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com= <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Kelly, you are right.=C2=A0 I even men= tioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.

=C2=A0

Mark, its = not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its proper operati= ng environment for the conditions you are going to be giving.=C2=A0 You men= tioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perhaps you don= t=C2=A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.=C2=A0 Thats fine, but you are n= ot going to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a p= lan to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The stock = hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 It and the 2nd gen 13b it ran wi= th were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts.=C2=A0 I= did what you are thinking about doing.=C2=A0 I ran the stock turbo to see = what I would get.=C2=A0 I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo last= ed for about 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Looking=C2=A0at its turbo map, the impe= ller was running over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It's very surprising it lasted 70= hours.=C2=A0 It probably only lasted that long because most of the time I = was not running full power.=C2=A0 The turbo imploded on my first long cross= country.=C2=A0 I was almost home and decided to let it loose a little.=C2= =A0 I was running=C2=A0about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude.=C2=A0 It laste= d about 30 min doing that.

=C2=A0

My advice, if = you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-off valve on the o= il feed line to the turbo.=C2=A0 I now have one in my installation.=C2=A0 W= hen the turbo=C2=A0goes it will be hemorrhaging=C2=A0oil into the exhaust.= =C2=A0 Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you can get= very far.=C2=A0 With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you= need.

=C2=A0<= /u>

Play around with that spreadsheet = I sent you.=C2=A0 Make up numbers that are realistic for how much boost at = what altitude you realistically=C2=A0want to fly, then find a turbo to fit = those parameters.=C2=A0 You can cut and paste various turbo maps onto the s= preadsheet.=C2=A0 They are available on the internet but most of the releva= nt=C2=A0ones are there on the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 Try to keep the turbo in i= ts center island of efficiency while staying away from the 'surge' = line.=C2=A0 Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible.=C2=A0 You will find t= hat Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily available= .=C2=A0 You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an aircraft.=

=C2=A0

Best,

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug= 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

G= roup,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no r= unning experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I settled on a "Tu= rbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as to not get in= to=C2=A0

any overspeed p= roblems..........FWIW

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /u>

Kelly troyer

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:

Dave,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just how much extra = Hp do you think you got withy the upgraded Turbo?=C2=A0 I will be happy wit= h 250 to 300 HP from the stock Hitachi.=C2=A0 Am I off with the fairys havi= ng this expectation?

= Neil.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">From: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@= lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AMTo: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
= Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft=

=C2=A0

James,

I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They= also have options for the Renisis.=C2=A0http://bnrsupercars.com/=C2=A0Cost is $950 for the= level 4 upgrade.=C2=A0 Makes a nice tight fit.=C2=A0 I had a big discussio= n about Turbo maps that you can find in the archives.=C2=A0 I settled on a = TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level.

=C2=A0

Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you = can use to evaluate various parameters in selecting a turbo.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Dave Leonard

<= /div>

=C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:

James,

=C2=A0 2 flying that I know of =E2= =80=93 Todd=C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave leonnard.=C2=A0 Think they have the stan= dard RX7 Hitachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just been around the world trying to get an a= ffordable=C2=A0 turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk to dr= ag racers etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between $4500 and $6500.=C2=A0 Bought 2 hitach= i turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearing= s.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight on= ly.=C2=A0 Would be a bargain.=C2=A0 Just hooking mine up now, but as usual = much to go that I have not factored as usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an interc= ooler that may fit.

<= span lang=3D"EN-AU">Best,=C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

From: Rotary moto= rs in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, Augus= t 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircra= ft

=C2=A0

Does anyone out there have any reco= mmendations for a turbo (brand and size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 = hp range. Reasons or experience is appreciated! Auto racers have their need= s but are different from aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are= nearing the decision stage for turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst=


=

=C2= =A0

=


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