X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=r2kMlTEw4EEzWRiFSbQXzg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=BolmfBhdEJukrBRPLRwA:9 a=0IwAeb2nwB7iZuVb:21 a=UZmc021hQ29L4AAB:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=IoeQSOh0AAAA:8 a=2zJYuC2nAAAA:20 a=VakrlYswdJioQmB36dYA:9 a=NJUQe9TEH-h1b-ZS:21 a=-W6hg_OCEuiOpu9l:21 a=2xFiYTb6e1_hYz0i:21 a=ETp0IO8Q5AEA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-il1-f182.google.com ([209.85.166.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 604605 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 15:40:36 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.166.182; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-il1-f182.google.com with SMTP id c6so170420ilo.13 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2hldKOfSUH3bly9XJkHngiDFicwM0G2q4Bx0b4HYhLE=; b=HGakt8z7z8RdzgI1rqlT8dXjySK1Y0sYJ8pubnrFOwFlJfACSsCMhcSNI8YD9vvwDm ot3jZgtG2wQW+KY4jCMThFD6v+TyW7i3MTJMnSQDDbe70ZFGk4mLdUniVV/FOWvpaupB ZU3QoVrN11xv0NZD1t/yuW1qpAYfpkViSOIzow+SvIuIR0m4do5L0+IMM32kfZ2rUriI bJQB7inIkfE7qvF6t+55oqYZ78X7/QkWFb7NLO6mcZ+Ktm8GyGxRREqt+7dSnyqWLfAn J6ZCXWjtQtJh/qjWsdPKyVJagyRZUkMFSlwTFpqaHut3/vhmKIL3llM6f/X/J1BXrz7B o1HA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2hldKOfSUH3bly9XJkHngiDFicwM0G2q4Bx0b4HYhLE=; b=W/Qtgj1OPPo/47MQopnDDrjRAqaEY5uOfE9cQJD8hzQUi39+LmyWjWct+WYSNU6M1I dfk8zUEDbPFYbYcNXw1WvwokUG6VAkPFMI/Cg3cNK0nJFSpKTeZ8NFQ125sgk2R8RNEf QEl5XmODD87OQ0g4mx73aYP07Kg40Nl7qCXMcbKhN4ETwfIyOs7ZcJ7LnA5xE8WrxVB6 XMAoX1IhJTQJgsvgI0nmy6e1BCVvqaLsWJhkPjHIjj8R1HapHLVqjoHmEw398CyMLUaO ut4s8it5GwCWiZQ/gKtc8rK+o2n1YoBhZYlA3IA9b3OiyyF6JPcAoUlfloBjQQAF+tFE geQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532WIqq2LCL+pQAL2wpOkMCu7v7jidoSxrZdE9pKXfY54ZYIw3L8 j3M1miMd9MXHS6tKTCWVx1e962yEkSomztakfUecjeY2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyxKhoduHQgyAgcKegHudF/SVS8jyQegxc0eebQ5D+YA1XUEerkBiXj0NF7sChbktoylmuKVYLbvchfM/3dxO0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:bf1:: with SMTP id d17mr6396ilu.261.1596570018885; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 14:39:35 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Kelly's 20B/Lyc 540 mount pics4 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d5b56205ac126c3c" --000000000000d5b56205ac126c3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Charlie, > My friend, an original PowerSport partner, built several all aluminum > engines. They always used multiple mounts. The problem was always the > studs, and the fact that the rotary has the problem of uneven heating. > Powersport attacked that problem by changing the cooling system on their > Superlite engine with the water input in the center of the combustion area. > The flow was outward to both ends and out. The standard engine uses a > series flow which is okay for automotive levels. If you have ever seen the > internals of the sideplates you will see how much baffling Mazda did > internally to get a fairly uniform heating across the housings. Studs still > need to be improved for continuous high power use. > The conical mount for the Lyc is supposed to be focused at or near the > center of mass, engine and prop, for smoother running. The mount added to > the Mazda will need to be laid out differently depending on which PSRU, and > prop combination. The center of mass can vary a lot depending on the prop > selected and the mass of the PSRU. The difference of mass of the rotary > itself can change radically if aluminum side plates are used. (about 1/3 > less) There are a lot of variables to consider just to use a standard > aircraft engine mount. I believe it's much easier to use a bed mount and > save the engineering for a better PSRU and perhaps a drive for a variable > speed prop. (I've attached a page of an original PowerSport article showing > the sideplates and assembled engine.) > Bill > > > No disagreement about any of the above, in relation to the dyna style mounts, except the terms. 'Conical', when talking about Lycs, refers to what's otherwise known as a 'straight' mount, with all 4 mount faces in the same plane and all 4 bolts parallel to each other. 'Conical' apparently comes from the shape of the cushions themselves; not the angles of the mount bolts. 'Dynafocal' refers to the type 1 & type 2 mounts that try to converge the extended bolt paths at the CG of the engine/prop assy ('focal', as in -'point'). I'm pretty sure I hinted at that in an earlier email. It's also true that Dyna mounts have limited utility for their designed-purpose even with many (most?) Lyc installations, because the same mount angle is used with everything from parallel valve O320s to angle valve IO360s, with/without prop extensions (of varying lengths), and everything from 12 lb wood or composite props to 60 lb+ C/S props. Easily a 100 lb spread, and likely a 4 or 5" CG movement. The type 2 angle was to compensate for a prop that had a hub only a couple of inches longer than standard. Charlie Charlie --000000000000d5b56205ac126c3c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= /div>
Charlie,
My= friend,=C2=A0an original PowerSport partner, built several all aluminum en= gines. They always used multiple mounts. The problem was always the studs, = and the fact that the rotary has the problem of uneven heating. Powersport = attacked that problem by changing the cooling system on their Superlite eng= ine with the water input in the center of the combustion area. The flow was= outward to both ends and out. The standard engine uses a series flow which= is okay for automotive levels. If you have ever seen the internals of the = sideplates you will see how much baffling Mazda did internally to get a fai= rly uniform heating across the housings. Studs still need to be improved fo= r continuous high power use.
=C2=A0The conical mount for the Lyc = is supposed to be focused at or near the center of mass, engine and prop, f= or smoother running. The mount added to the Mazda will need to be laid out = differently depending on which PSRU, and prop combination. The center of ma= ss can vary a lot depending on the prop selected and the mass of the PSRU. = The difference of mass of the rotary itself can change radically if aluminu= m side plates are used. (about 1/3 less) There are a lot of variables to co= nsider just to use a standard aircraft engine mount. I believe it's muc= h easier to use a bed mount and save the engineering for a better PSRU and = perhaps a drive for a variable speed prop. (I've attached a page of an = original PowerSport article showing the sideplates and assembled engine.)
Bill

<= /div>

=
No disagreemen= t about any of the above, in relation to the dyna style mounts, except the = terms. 'Conical', when talking about Lycs, refers to what's oth= erwise known as a 'straight' mount, with all 4 mount faces in the s= ame plane and all 4 bolts parallel to each other. 'Conical' apparen= tly comes from the shape of the cushions themselves; not the angles of the = mount bolts. 'Dynafocal' refers to the type 1 & type 2 mounts t= hat try to converge the extended bolt paths at the CG of the engine/prop as= sy ('focal', as in -'point'). I'm pretty sure I hinted = at that in an earlier email.=C2=A0

It's also true that Dyna mounts hav= e limited utility for their designed-purpose even with many (most?) Lyc ins= tallations, because the same mount angle is used with everything from paral= lel valve O320s to angle valve IO360s, with/without prop extensions (of var= ying lengths), and everything from 12 lb wood or composite props to 60 lb+ = C/S props. Easily a 100 lb spread, and likely a 4 or 5" CG movement. T= he type 2 angle was to compensate for a prop that had a hub only a couple o= f inches longer than standard.

Charlie

Charlie
--000000000000d5b56205ac126c3c--