X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=G2TurPKJgwUaKOYoOgSX4A==:117 a=5ZdN53DUBXSlI79CusMrgQ==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=-OMJOJjeAAAA:8 a=V4B05YJgAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=7l9IGVLSR4Hf91a9ogIA:9 a=hdTk54lF2enZ7kHj:21 a=MxRUjJnd_8lOje7n:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=1Idefx6UWbsJTyUMWVYA:9 a=mMOqUlWqX3_XziDP:21 a=5WwYkWX8elNTye7R:21 a=cgknQqgvHbdbSqvS:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=QnhMYmKtrbbKsxwRCpPK:22 a=o5L99fmz5hJO8Pp-vrK3:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qk1-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 542896 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 13:45:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.222.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk1-f171.google.com with SMTP id l23so3843235qkk.0 for ; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:45:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=qlar6eiHybqia7F3bJMqbo5i3N5MUSljnzTkFKV43Ew=; b=F8YYt+O0GN2B1+Eplj24GMlG07aMNCULqDIMLvGXckxmON/o9Bdh8J2ItMnKrwaduP qxQ8ZbPKlE4mRPSNAipGc2+PUYnSGhOKLS9uWsZwJG51ZAWWqlBPBO/0zojsbZv9xejL br7v6gOgV6i3N1uPfvBNGluMcif4ry1BCGSi5YgM2R3F78L7GyifJRoVWLS1XA3ItaS7 +51bTOcA5hszZQGcoOv0G9NY2yuTM1NG54C7eOX6HujA/aXcCTQ3nRqHtkptootq1UZl 7O/1uP/VEITKd67xBiusmE/MG0mHfZx5mUjCN8lYG0QQIAw86lxESZB08WNPbSeenDeq wzYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=qlar6eiHybqia7F3bJMqbo5i3N5MUSljnzTkFKV43Ew=; b=s39UBM1TOSDNyVLcc9lxeTXycTgZimz8HGIbQChV8TEs3kARbYROomYPw10nN3YCFb tJLgtejHuHczkur7/PUES4DQaoxB/pHJ168EVJ1mirXEKm3ghZYJRqvvVP9My0QrPWvp PxsXL/tKb7q4lkQvDTaUmrw/7ABGMTxOz2ZEkbgH+m7ynpoi7oaWQp10ZtLdiw+o7tAk Ctzsywj6YKfXUmgaNST6Y3roxRry6za4la+TPLGjthTWKwoQV7B1Jm3X1DS4ZOUk1bP7 KL+7tRqd1KP0/OaEpI2INsCmS1ceT9G34n3ObVsq3cXU9QQOfm8fxUp572QCGtLU7ln6 VtHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530uLAcqcRTowlbie9STP8hzvaJd7h1iYEnnRBaX395UoHBsIBLT M4LgfajGG2tVZCsTqMZamyZC96Db X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxC8DMKBx/jg/eZWInlaKAa92ypb/E2BmGLf0KonZ3Btb3hyurJYbm4woYRgrYyz9aVuurNDA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1470:: with SMTP id j16mr14937100qkl.373.1595094326105; Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.245] ([166.137.96.69]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s128sm13430979qkd.108.2020.07.18.10.45.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Jul 2020 10:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: over square and detonation of a rotary for my pilot friend To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 12:45:47 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4A0876C38F5BF7B76F9EC54E" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 200718-2, 07/18/2020), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4A0876C38F5BF7B76F9EC54E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's the reason I had the context qualifier in there. :-) I had to learn the 'new' meaning when I started flying. Charlie On 7/18/2020 12:12 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: > I used the MAP to see where I was going. Not up on all of this tuning > stuff. My "Over square" is the piston diameter /stroke > length.............Sorry......LEH > > In a message dated 7/18/2020 11:23:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > All, > > Operating 'oversquare' in the piston a/c world is normally > interpreted > as MAP (in inches of water) being larger than engine rpm divided > by 100. > Ex: 28" MAP & 2200-2400 rpm during takeoff and climb is > oversquare, and > would be a normal occurrence with a fixed pitch Lycoming operating > from > an airport near sealevel. And virtually all turbocharged a/c > engines are > *always* operating oversquare to some degree. So the hazard of > 'oversquare', in and of itself, is largely an 'old hangar tale'. What > Lynn said is the limiting factor in piston engines, just like the > rotary. > > Not sure how you'd apply the metric to a rotary anyway, since its > higher > rpm would mean it is almost never in the 'oversquare' area. > Charlie > https://www.avweb.com/features_old/why-over-square-is-good/ > > https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2018/october/pilot/savvy-aviator-hip-to-be-over-square > > On 7/18/2020 9:08 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com > wrote: > > Thanks Bobby. > > We are just NA, but the idea of a turbo and 250hp is appealing > and would make the Glasair hum along at altitude! > > > > Steve I > > > >> On 18 Jul 2020, at 9:17 pm, Charlie England > ceengland7@gmail.com > > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Steve, > >> Are you running a turbo? I didn't see it listed when you asked > about oversquare, so I thought you were running NA. > >> > >> Sent from BlueMail > >> On Jul 18, 2020, at 7:34 AM, "Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > " > wrote: > >> Steve, > >> > >> I used 6800-7000 rpm, 36-38” MP with F/A in the 12’s for > takeoff.  Around pattern altitude I would reduce to 6000 rpm and > 30-32” MP with F/A a little richer than best power in the 13’s. I > monitored EGT’s during all phases of flight and would make mixture > changes as needed to keep EGT around 1600 or less during high > power operations. I used a vernier cable to control the super > charger bypass and could dial in the desired MP. For the turbo I > was planning a 4# waste gate with an air control valve to apply > more pressure to the top of spring at higher altitudes or lower > rpm. Still using the same target numbers as with the super > charger. But no turbo for the S21 project. I guess I need to sell > it at some point. > >> > >> So I only used boost for takeoff and for normalization most of > the time. I liked operating  28- 30” with the prop between > 1700-2000 rpm. Rich or lean to keep the EGT under 1600F and intake > temps under 140F. > >> > >> Bobby > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >>> On Jul 17, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Stephen Izett > stephen.izett@gmail.com > > > wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks Bobby. > >>> What boost are you running? > >>> > >>> And I meant to ask, my friend is asking what power setting we > consider the engine to be OK with for continual operation? > >>> > >>> Steve Izett > >>> > >>>> On 18 Jul 2020, at 9:59 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> My preferred cruise economy settings 30” MP, 4800-5200 rpm. > F/A 15:8 lean. Or 30-34” MP, 5200-5400 rpm F/A 14:0 or whatever > was need to keep EGT below 1600F and intake air temp below 140F. > >>>> > >>>> Bobby > >>>> > >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net > ] > >>>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 7:10 PM > >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft > >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] over square and detonation of a rotary > for my pilot friend > >>>> > >>>> Hi people. > >>>> > >>>> My test pilot friend and I are continuing our journey of > extending the phase#1 envelope and now experimenting with engine > settings. > >>>> With a flight adjustable prop he is asking questions about > 'over square' and detonation. > >>>> Can anyone give me an answer for him? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Steve Izett > >>>> Glasaie Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C variable pitch prop. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Disclaimer > >>>> > >>>> The information contained in this communication from the > sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the > recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this > information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. > >>>> > >>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may > have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in > Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and > more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; > Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here. > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --------------4A0876C38F5BF7B76F9EC54E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
That's the reason I had the context qualifier in there. :-) I had to learn the 'new' meaning when I started flying.

Charlie

On 7/18/2020 12:12 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
I used the MAP to see where I was going. Not up on all of this tuning stuff. My "Over square" is the piston diameter /stroke length.............Sorry......LEH

In a message dated 7/18/2020 11:23:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

All,

Operating 'oversquare' in the piston a/c world is normally interpreted
as MAP (in inches of water) being larger than engine rpm divided by 100.
Ex: 28" MAP & 2200-2400 rpm during takeoff and climb is oversquare, and
would be a normal occurrence with a fixed pitch Lycoming operating from
an airport near sealevel. And virtually all turbocharged a/c engines are
*always* operating oversquare to some degree. So the hazard of
'oversquare', in and of itself, is largely an 'old hangar tale'. What
Lynn said is the limiting factor in piston engines, just like the rotary.

Not sure how you'd apply the metric to a rotary anyway, since its higher
rpm would mean it is almost never in the 'oversquare' area.
Charlie


On 7/18/2020 9:08 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks Bobby.
> We are just NA, but the idea of a turbo and 250hp is appealing and would make the Glasair hum along at altitude!
>
> Steve I
>
>> On 18 Jul 2020, at 9:17 pm, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>> Are you running a turbo? I didn't see it listed when you asked about oversquare, so I thought you were running NA.
>>
>> Sent from BlueMail
>> On Jul 18, 2020, at 7:34 AM, "Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> I used 6800-7000 rpm, 36-38” MP with F/A in the 12’s for takeoff.  Around pattern altitude I would reduce to 6000 rpm and 30-32” MP with F/A a little richer than best power in the 13’s. I monitored EGT’s during all phases of flight and would make mixture changes as needed to keep EGT around 1600 or less during high power operations. I used a vernier cable to control the super charger bypass and could dial in the desired MP. For the turbo I was planning a 4# waste gate with an air control valve to apply more pressure to the top of spring at higher altitudes or lower rpm. Still using the same target numbers as with the super charger. But no turbo for the S21 project. I guess I need to sell it at some point.
>>
>> So I only used boost for takeoff and for normalization most of the time. I liked operating  28- 30” with the prop between 1700-2000 rpm. Rich or lean to keep the EGT under 1600F and intake temps under 140F.
>>
>> Bobby
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2020, at 9:53 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Bobby.
>>> What boost are you running?
>>>
>>> And I meant to ask, my friend is asking what power setting we consider the engine to be OK with for continual operation?
>>>
>>> Steve Izett
>>>
>>>> On 18 Jul 2020, at 9:59 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My preferred cruise economy settings 30” MP, 4800-5200 rpm. F/A 15:8 lean. Or 30-34” MP, 5200-5400 rpm F/A 14:0 or whatever was need to keep EGT below 1600F and intake air temp below 140F.
>>>>
>>>> Bobby
>>>>
>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 7:10 PM
>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] over square and detonation of a rotary for my pilot friend
>>>>
>>>> Hi people.
>>>>
>>>> My test pilot friend and I are continuing our journey of extending the phase#1 envelope and now experimenting with engine settings.
>>>> With a flight adjustable prop he is asking questions about 'over square' and detonation.
>>>> Can anyone give me an answer for him?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Steve Izett
>>>> Glasaie Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C variable pitch prop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and compliance. To find out more Click Here.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>
> --


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