X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=QVyk3i9c2HulCahbJoCTpA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=JZygid9Izu4A:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=eKhGbfrDAAAA:8 a=k2MrBfdo2kVqB8Sh7OUA:9 a=IXLRDyNjEL6Q0Wo4:21 a=nDH0S-UrfYWcaild:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=HB3x3wrdSBRYJuyuVowA:9 a=yhDnV6G5ngpoutHV:21 a=MxmGgAdeFrWYKqgi:21 a=9vWx2FsZub9XOMkJ:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=UDUmxsVa2tvOjJGaeGiU:22 From: "Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lf1-f66.google.com ([209.85.167.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 533765 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 23:40:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.66; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-f66.google.com with SMTP id u12so2482977lff.2 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:40:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nM3ahaZQmugFbCHR9/UErlWGHKVszi6NNuwyZCIE6G4=; b=Ni1fks9NZmtIcb6YRCtSscpAdACtA4eVzf/taqz49CBUAnFrDZiaDuCsxgTKLpBogW 6MdDEndajxrzL8uoJgkUT8Jet7geu4CjH5UXxK6pqgN6caEisnApl+5w+AlQmPt1NamE cT/A2f1YHczsGC9sc3FklyypWhCK1P29OjB+MvRr5Jp67xDw4T8W5oU1zh/aIcWexj2s v8z11H3DZJ6olnDibDLMCi5IAOBqH/+2KhYYzcBwLxw8xwO6v3X2iA+EFtt1TLIJ7ma7 TamrvpL1wt56PAkS1/XWd1H/dotnao7w6WI6lYrIAEGWB5xmtD5YpGridD/c4EMaohtT alNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=nM3ahaZQmugFbCHR9/UErlWGHKVszi6NNuwyZCIE6G4=; b=djfrRja3ERlSDo8FEe7a/NLUjWezNx24/qiQqZDVdKuxKcs3usCCeZnvHNz5nuDqJm fYpk9ua4X0MlTIPnM6RvCdej+iWm28BlnhBkwX9ZYAISiFRQ8GkjhGDKeREaAJcA1SoA BWzZeuWeShmfzlmUYf4tdvikrP2ACUN5ueBGWEKXjj5VF/wVa4XG1B3jznNlCQBSyzNu F9j0Rf2wZFRhRgbWNClkBSk/rHMPRNaRZCKLY7SEYIMeOBZFPyO/R0FP1w6q/OoIlgVm /4wtSfSCFfSkalG09L/KLuURD0VL5k33H09Twsa9qc5pgiyTRBgcmc4iLKvJZ+Mijwqk tI9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533u3aDC0Eg8m/sQerNbt/685vD+3BrFAw1rM8aSWuzIFIxsBZaw wA6LWTdJlZIgWlAYvZK0zPuw8RWYCJ50KLOUqTh+OA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxn2xdcnwJDR3PRf6x4XRYBNdCwziQmhYhDbgJMRHbr7H9zNfG2kdf3E++eNSwsBsTsOy8kiAa7umF2SqoHt1I= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c23:: with SMTP id u3mr1074837lfq.84.1594870792998; Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 22:37:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing-pics To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001454f105aa86cb25" --0000000000001454f105aa86cb25 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, Yes I was aware of an additional bolt "Boss" for some years covers that are built into the "ProMaz" alloy housings..........That is one of the things I addressed to Marc's question that can be programed easily into the alloy "Aircraft Specific Front Side Housing"........You are correct that a alloy plate or a rigid alloy oil sump for a bed mount will reduce (or eliminate) the need for .500 inch / 12.5 mm studding...........The idea for a special aircraft alloy housing is to facilitate ease of mounting the Rotary (13B / 20B) utilizing a standard aircraft mount system (which has been done by Mistral) even though there are many that question the use of this type of mount for the rotary as not being optimum........... Best, Kelly Troyer On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 6:30 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > My dream engine..................notice that there is a stud hole not use= d > by this front cover. And high HP engines are studded to prevent twist. = A > bed mount aluminum plate would reduce the need for studding. ..LEH > > In a message dated 7/15/2020 6:40:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > Group, > Link to a little "EYE Candy"............Expensive 20B all alloy > buildup.......... > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVvh04D7hiZo&feature=3Demb_rel_end > > Kelly Troyer > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 4:50 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Marc, > The footprint (gasket ) of the Renesis Rx8 front cover is almost the > same as the early 13B/20B front covers...........Their are some bolt > spacing differences that are easily programed into > the "Aircraft Specific Front housing" that we are trying to > produce............Mark Stietle (formally of this group but since passed) > adapted the RX8 Renesis water pump to his 20B powered > Lancair by cutting the water pump part of a Renesis from a front cover an= d > bolted it to his 20B.........One mounting bolt was not able to be > used.......He retained the original 20B front cover......... > I do not know how many flight hours Mark put on this water pump conversio= n > but it was still flying up until his passing.........If you are just > wanting to put the complete Renesis front cover on > a stock 13BREW or 20B front iron housing I am not sure if there would be > bolt bosses in the proper place......With an alloy front housing bolt > bosses can be located wherever we want them.. > Renesis front covers are readily available as are their water > pumps.......If you look into the Rotary Racing Crowd you will find turbo > versions of the Renesis......If anything the Renesis water > pump has a bigger heat load because of the exhaust exiting into the side > housings...........IMHO.........Hope this answers some of your > questions.......... > > Best, > Kelly Troyer > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 2:39 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Kelly, > > I=E2=80=99m still in, but need to make sure what needs to change from a > 13Brewtt/20B to mate up to a RX8 2004-2008 cover. And are they and their > water pump still (more or less) available? Not sure the RX8 pump can hand= le > the turbo variants=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.= might need options. > > M > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, July 11, 2020 6:48 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B > Mazda Front Side Housing-pics > > > > Marc & Ernest, > > Ernest first.............Nothing available to buy at this time and no > guarantee there will ever be..........Backplate / Mount is in CAD design > stage...........The plate for a stock engine is not the > problem..........There > > are several companies already producing alloy replacement side plates (Fo= r > an all alloy 13B/20B)..........What we are try to do is produce a front > sideplate (Firewall side in an aircraft) that incorporates the four > > (4) mounting points that will allow the engine to be a "Bolt up" to the > Lycoming O/IO 540 mount ring using "30 degree , Dyna 1" mount cushions as > used by "Vans" RV10 and any other aircraft (Experimental) > > that normally use any of the several variations O/IO 540 > engines..........As stated previously this mount ring is available (Just > the Ring) from "Vans" currently for about $150.00.........I have already > purchased > > two of these...........Let it be known that some Lycoming O/IO 540 engine= s > used a "18 degree , Dyna 2" mount........We currently have no plans to > produce Blackplate / Mounts for the "Dyna 2" mount........The > > *"Mount Ears"* of The O-540 are bolted on to the crankcase and oil > sump so the two different types (Dyna 1 & Dyna 2) are removable and > replaceable......... > > > > Marc the bolt patterns for all the various front covers are virtually > the same with some slight variations in bolt spacing and the number of > bolts..........We are currently planning on the use of the RX8 Renesis > > 2004-2008 front cover and water pump and it looks like it will fit within > the confines of the O/IO 540 mount ring by removing the alternator boss > which stands on top of the water pump housing..............This will > > necessitate relocating the alternator..........This has not been worked > out at this time.........The RX8 Renesis 2009-2011 front cover could be > used also (We Think) but it is more complicated and incorporates the > > oil filter and we think a larger remote filter is a better > option...........Also the current plan is to take oil directly from the o= il > pump (As "Mistral" did) from the oil galley on the side of the front > housing (Plugged on the > > stock side housing) directly to the oil filter and oil cooler instead of > out the front cover (A weak point particularly in early covers at high oi= l > pressure).............As far as front covers it would be simple to order > bolt > > spacing for what ever cover you want (*But) Here is the problem*.........= ......The > early water pump alloy housings and cast iron water pumps are not only > heavy but they do not fit in the confines of the O/IO 540 > > mount ring and if the use of the 1986-1991 13B/20B ignition is planned we > are not sure at this time if it would clear the mount ring ........That i= s > the reason for use of the RX8 Renesis front cover (which requires > > the use of a crankshaft trigger ignition).........We do not > anticipate producing a plate to fit the RX8 Renesis engine so anything we > produce will be only for the 13B/20B engines...........All good question= s > and we > > are trying to come up with best solutions for several possible > problems......... > > > > Just as a note of interest I have purchased a non airworthy (Junk) > O-540 crankcase and currently have the "Vans" O-540 mount ring bolted to > it........This was done so we could accurately place the Eccentric > > shaft centerline of the 13B/20B in the exact same place of the O-540 > crankshaft centerline within the confines of the mount ring and judge how > everything will fit........... > > > > Best, > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 4:08 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Just remember there must be an option on the bolt pattern, to fit the > what?? The 13Brew tt, the Renesis, the 20B (only has the non-crankshaft > trigger ign type distributor arrangement, and which was only offered in t= he > AT version), etc. I am not sure what the bolt differences are in them, bu= t > I bet there are some! So what water pump and alternator provisions, as we= ll > as the trigger/distributor needs to be made clear as to requirements. > > I think that place in Australia offers aluminum side housings, abeit with > some sort of embedded wear surface (??? important), and maybe others. I= =E2=80=99ve > seen them offered before. > > > > Marc > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Friday, July 10, 2020 10:25 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B > Mazda Front Side Housing-pics > > > > Charlie, > > After rereading your post I missed your point of using a "Mistral > Type" bolt on housing to the Renesis iron plate............Now that is > something that could be doable...........Just for your > > information my "Mistral" bolt on "Mount/Housing" will bolt on to the > "Renesis" front iron housing..........I do not have a "Renesis" front > housing in front of me but I believe it is a little thicker > > than a 13B/20B front housing because of the exhaust port..........This > extra thickness would probably make modifications to the oil pump gear , > spacers , and pulley stack necessary........ > > Something to investigate !!.......... > > Best > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:07 PM Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Charlie, > > Interesting point.........First question off the top of my head is how > well would alloy Renesis side plates tolerate exhaust gas going through > them and could stainless or inconel exhaust > > inserts as in the 13B/20B be put in them (cost being a factor also) > ?.............All the aftermarket alloy side plates being produced to my > knowledge are for the 13B/20B engines..........I > > suppose it could be done but as of now all the aftermarket auto > performance people using alloy side plates use the 13B/20B > platform...........Food for thought though......... > > > > Best > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:01 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Kelly, > > I hate to muddy the waters, but I wonder how much interest there would be > in a Renesis plate vs the 13B plate. My personal preference is to use the > Renesis, for various reasons. My wish list would be for a Mistral-style > accessory housing, but made for the Renesis. > > Do keep posting any updates, though. Like Todd said, any and all info is > welcome. > > Charlie > > On 7/10/2020 6:33 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com wrote: > > Todd, > > Thanks for the comment and it is well received............Unless I > hear otherwise from a majority of the group I will then keep all further > discussion on the group forum...............As a further > > note if and when I acquire the mount/backplate under discussion I will > probably add it to my "P" port 13BREW that I mentioned instead of the > "Mistral" mount/housing that I have......I have > > a 20B but it would be seriously too much power and weight for my "Dyke > Delta" even if the 20B were all alloy housings.......... > > > > Thanks Again, > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:55 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Kelly; > > This mount idea is an excellent idea worth pursuing as a practical > engine mount is a major roadblock to many builders that are otherwise > considering alternative engines. > > While I'm not currently in the market for one myself, so I hadn't raise= d > my hand to say "count me in", but the future could bring another project > where I would be happy to have that availability of a ready to go engine > mount. > > However I'd like to encourage you to keep all further discussion of > this topic online. I'd much rather simply delete a conversation that I ma= y > not have an interest in, than see the list with no discussion at all as > we've seen all too often in the recent past. Any and all discussion > pertaining to rotary powered aircraft helps to keep the list active and > encouraging to other builders, as well as adding ideas to the archives. > > The archives have been a gold mine of info for me over the years, > sometimes even reading my own comments to give me an insight as to "what > the hell was I thinking" when I came up with some failed concept. But mor= e > often than not as a source of info for more successful concepts. > > > > Todd > > C-FSTB > > RV9 13Bturbo > > > > On Fri., Jul. 10, 2020, 11:21 Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Flyrotary Forum Members, > > I appreciate the response of all members to my posts > regarding the possible production of an *"Aircraft Specific Alloy 13B/20B > combination Engine mount/Side plate"* > > that would be a direct bolt in to a* Lycoming O/IO 540 "30 degree Dyna 1" > engine mount ring.............. *There are several aftermarket companies > currently producing all the alloy > > side housings that are necessary for an all alloy 13B/20B for the auto > Racing crowd.........What we are trying to do is produce at this time is = a > front side housing specifically designed > > with the proper mount points to be essentially bolt in to any aircraft > that normally be powered by any of several versions of the Lycoming O/IO > 540 engine..........The current plan is to > > use the RX8 Renesis front cover with its water pump and ignition pickup > and retain the stock oil pump........This mount could also be used many > other aircraft that normally would use > > the Lycoming O/IO 320-360 engines by using the Lycoming O/IO 540 mount > ring (currently available from "Vans" for about $150.00) with a 13BREW > engine (all alloy if wanted)........ > > > > This is a project that I have a personal interest in and at > this time cannot report a time schedule for its completion.........I have > committed for the first "Beta" housing for testing > > and will keep the forum appraised of progress...........The forum is > probably tired of me cluttering it up with this subject so for the time > being any of the group that have an interest in > > this project or have any additional questions or concerns may E mail me > directly if they choose..........Thanks for listening........... > > > > Best Regards > > Kelly Troyer > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:50 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Guys, > > More info on the "Glasair 3" in Europe with "Mistral" 20 B based > rotary engine......... > > > > https://www.kitplanes.com/more-mistral-magic/ > > > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 4:59 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Lynn, > > Forgot to mention what the "Black" plate is.........."Mistrall" took > oil from the normally plugged oil galley on the side of the front iron to= a > machined "O" ringed alloy plate that > > incorporated the oil filter and a "Vernitherm" (a Continental part I > think) to bypass the oil cooler until oil temp got up to about 150 degre= es > F........I have this plate also.......... > > > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Marc & Lynn > > Yes the photo of the "Mistral" 13B engine on the bench is like what my > 13BREW will look like except it will have "Racing Beat" alloy center & re= ar > housings and will be "P" ported........Their > > early 13B engines were based on the 1986-1991 models.............Yes Lynn > this is the early mount scheme that combines the alloy mount casting and > front cover into one unit that bolts to the > > front iron and incorporates the water pump and mount for the alternator > plus the pickup for their electronic ignition..........It also had > provisions for a drive for a vacuum pump.........I did not get > > the gears for this drive (less expense)(electric airplane) with my > housing.........This casting mounts to a "Dynafocal Type 1" Lycoming O/IO > 320-360 mount ring......... > > > > Thanks, > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 1:31 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > In both pictures the mount appears to attach to the front iron. And to a > cast oil pan and a plate bolted to the left side of the front iron (black > plate).............LEH > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2020 1:38:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > > > > > Great stuff. I saw and read that Kitplanes article with great interest > back when. > > Here=E2=80=99s some conical mounting back plate pictures I found on my ha= rd drive, > I believe they are all Mistral, but don=E2=80=99t know where they came fr= om > originally (perhaps Paul Lamar=E2=80=99s group) One is a 13B named =E2=80= =98Steve=E2=80=99. > Hopefully these pics get thru-there is a picture limit on this list that > makes it difficult to send larger files, so I didn=E2=80=99t send all of = them I > have just of the backplate, what is the MB/KB limit here? > > Marc > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 09, 2020 1:28 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side > Housing > > > > Le Roux, > > Thanks for digging this up as it will answer a lot of questions from > the group..........This was the final iteration of "Mistrals" alloy side > housing / accessory drive > > that was headed for US & European certification.........It incorporated > the *"30 Degree/#1 Dyna Mount Ears"* for the Lycoming O/IO 540 engine > mount..........This is > > what this thread is all about..........My friend is attempting to come up > with a less expensive version of this plate but without all the > accessory drives and using the > > stock RX 8 front cover with stock water pump and ignition pickup (electri= c > airplanes)............Photos are worth a thousand words.......... > > Thanks Again, > > Kelly troyer > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 12:24 AM Le Roux Breytenbach > breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > > Kelly : Just saw this on the archive on our group thread you post in Apri= l > 2011 > > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/flyrotary/Message/54713-02-B/MISTR= AL_%20FINAL%20BACKPLATE%20VERSION.jpg > > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/Lists/flyrotary/Message/54713-03-B/MISTR= AL_FINAL%20RearPlate_drawing%20(Large).jpg > > > > > > > > > Dating back to April 2011 that you have post regarding the Mistral > mounting here you post some photos of the Mistral dynafocal set up and > mounting > > Here is the article of Paul Janssens Glasair 111 > > > > https://www.kitplanes.com/mistral-magic/ > > > > Le Roux > > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 6:35 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Dave & Charlie, > > > > Only the early "Mistral" 13B/20B based engines used the bolt on front > cover/accessory drive alloy cover that had mount points that used the > Lycoming O/IO 320-360 "Dynafocal Type 1" mount ring.........I know this > > as fact as I am the proud owner of one of these alloy housings.........I > have all the housings and parts to build a bastardized part alloy "P port= " > 13BREW engine.........I retained the cast iron front (Rear in tractor A/C= ) > > side housing because I was not comfortable having my engine hang on its > mounts from a housing attached only by several 6 mm bolts threaded into a > cast alloy "Racing Beat" front side housing.........All the other > > housings (Center & Rear) are alloy "Racing Beat"..........The earliest > "Mistral" 20B engines also used this alloy front cover but also had mount > points at the redrive end of the engine (Essentially a Bed type Mount) an= d > > only used the bottom two mount points on the accessory end of the > engine.........At that point in "Mistral's" engine development the engine= s > they sold to experimenters were basically "Mazda" engines and all their > parts > > were directly adaptable to a stock "Mazda" engine (such as my > engine)............The last iteration of their engines were designed to b= e > certifiable so they had to have a verifiable manufacturing > trail..........So they made > > engineering changes in their parts to eliminate things about the stock > "Mazda" parts that were not needed or were improvements for aircraft > use..........Most of the last versions of their engines had parts that we= re > not > > adaptable to the stock "Mazda" engines...........Long winded but perhaps > will enlighten some about the "Mistral" series of engines.......... > > > > Best, > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:45 PM Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Charlie and Mark, > > Yes Charlie the accessory "iron" side housing is what would be > replaced with an aluminum housing with built in mount points that replica= te > the Lycoming O/IO 540 mount ears and locate the Mazda eccentric > > shaft centerline in the same place as the Lycoming crankshaft centerline > and make the Mazda a bolt in to any aircraft using the O/IO 540 30 degree > "Dyna1" mount system............. > > > > Mark I am well aware of the different opinions on using the rear dyn= a > focal mount on the Mazda.........Bill is correct about the need for .500 > in/12.5mm studs and a stiffening plate and/or rigid oil sump to > > further resistance to torsional twisting..........But remember that the > O/IO 540 family of engines with firewall forward weights of 400+ to over > 500 lbs for some turbo models are all using this mount system and > > that an all alloy 13B or 20B (even with reduction drive) will be much > lighter..........I do not believe that the "Mistral" 13B or 20B used allo= y > housings for other than the front accessory housing and I have never > > heard if they used the oversize .500 inch/12.5 mm studs in any of their > engines..........This is probably a question that will have to be proven > one way or another in actual use..........IMHO > > Best > > Kelly Troyer > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 5:49 PM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Wonder why Mistral used dynafocal type mounting on their 13b and 20b > designs? > > M > > Sent from my iPad > > > > On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:11 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Kelly, > > The "dynafocal" type mount has been tried on the rotary but has not worke= d > out well..One of the obvious rotary traits is that it has a hot and cold > side. Various methods have been used to limit this but there is no way to > eliminate it completely. Because of this the engine tends to "work" and > move around on the studs. Using the engine as a stressed member is not > recommended with the rotary. If you were to do this anyway I wouldn't do > it without a stud kit. You will have better results using a bed mount. YM= MV > > Bill Jepson > > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:18 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > *I am in contact with a person with the design and manufacturing **capabi= lity > to produce an **Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing > machined from 7075-T6* *with mount points that would allow these engines* > > *to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 degree number 1 Dyna) as > used by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraft that use the Lycoming O/IO 54= 0 > engine..........This side plate is in the preliminary design stage and at > this* > > > > > > > > > > *point I am a go between to see if there would be any interest in this > product if and when it is produced...........I personally am interested > this side plate........As we on this forum know both the 13B / 20B are > capable of trulyamazing power levels both naturally aspirated and turbo > boosted.........The 20B would make the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or Lancair= 's > that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost bolt in > engine...........The "Reno" Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are > producing almost 400 mph speeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines > that are virtual hand grenades pulling over 700 hp...........There are > turbo 20B's pulling1200 hp out in the auto racing world with good > reliability..........A 20B boosted to 700+ hp is not even breathing > hard.........IMHOWould like to hear what interest there may be in this > product if and when it may be produced............Or any comments pro or > con..............* > > > > > > Kelly Troyer > > --0000000000001454f105aa86cb25 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Yes I was aware of an ad= ditional bolt "Boss" for some years covers that are built into th= e "ProMaz" alloy housings..........That is one of the things I ad= dressed to Marc's question that can be programed easily into
= the alloy "Aircraft Specific Front Side Housing"........You are c= orrect that a alloy plate or a rigid alloy oil sump for a bed mount will re= duce=C2=A0 (or eliminate) the need for .500 inch / 12.5 mm studding........= ...The idea for=C2=A0
a=C2=A0special aircraft alloy housing is to= facilitate ease of mounting the Rotary (13B / 20B) utilizing a standard ai= rcraft mount system (which has been done by Mistral) even though there are = many that question the use
of this type of mount for the rotary a= s not being optimum...........
Best,
Kelly Troyer=C2=A0= =C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 6:30 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
My dream engine..................notice that there is a st= ud hole not used by this front cover.=C2=A0 And high HP engines are studded= to prevent twist.=C2=A0 A bed mount aluminum plate would reduce the need f= or studding. ..LEH

In a message dated 7/15/2020 6:40:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net writes:

Group,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Link to a little "EYE Candy"............Expensi= ve 20B all alloy buildup..........


Kelly Troyer

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 4:50 PM Kelly Troyer keltro= @gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wr= ote:
=C2=A0 Marc,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The footprint (gasket ) of the Renesis Rx8 front cover is= almost the same as the early 13B/20B front covers...........Their are some= bolt spacing differences that are easily programed into
the "Aircraft Specific Front housing" that we are trying to = produce............Mark Stietle (formally of this group but since passed) a= dapted the RX8 Renesis water pump=C2=A0to his 20B powered
Lancair by cutting the water pump=C2=A0part of a Renesis from a front = cover and bolted it to his 20B.........One mounting bolt was not=C2=A0 able= to be used.......He retained the original 20B front cover.........
I do not know how many flight hours Mark put on this water pump conver= sion but it was still flying up until his passing.........If you are just w= anting to put the complete Renesis front cover on
a stock 13BREW or 20B front iron housing I am not sure if there would = be bolt bosses in the proper place......With an alloy front housing bolt bo= sses can be located wherever=C2=A0we want them..
=C2=A0 Renesis front covers are readily available as are their water p= umps.......If you look into the Rotary Racing Crowd you will find turbo ver= sions of the Renesis......If anything the Renesis water
pump has a bigger heat load because of the exhaust exiting into the si= de housings...........IMHO.........Hope this answers some of your questions= ..........

Best,
Kelly Troyer

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 2:39 PM Marc Wiese card= marc@charter.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt; wrote:

Kelly,=

I=E2=80=99m still in= , but need to make sure what needs to change from a 13Brewtt/20B to mate up= to a RX8 2004-2008 cover. And are they and their water pump still (more or= less) available? Not sure the RX8 pump can handle the turbo variants=E2=80= =A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.might need options.=

M

=C2=A0=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 6:48 PM
To: Rotary motors i= n aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specifi= c 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing-pics

=C2=A0

Marc & Ernest,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ernest=C2=A0first.............Nothing available to buy at = this time and no guarantee there will ever be..........Backplate / Mount is= in CAD design stage...........The plate for a stock engine is not the prob= lem..........There

are several companies already producing alloy replacement side plates (F= or an all alloy 13B/20B)..........What we are try to do is produce a front = sideplate (Firewall side in an aircraft) that incorporates the four<= u>

(4) mounting points that will allow the engine to be a "Bolt up&quo= t; to the Lycoming O/IO 540 mount ring using "30 degree , Dyna 1"= mount cushions as used by "Vans" RV10 and any other aircraft (Ex= perimental)

that normally=C2=A0use any of the several variations O/IO 540 engines...= .......As stated previously this mount ring=C2=A0is available (Just the Rin= g) from "Vans" currently for about $150.00.........I have already= purchased=C2=A0

two of these...........Let it be known that some Lycoming O/IO 540 engin= es used a "18 degree , Dyna 2" mount........We currently have no = plans to produce Blackplate / Mounts for the "Dyna 2" mount......= ..The

"Mount Ears" of The O-540 are bolted on to th= e crankcase and oil sump=C2=A0so the two different types (Dyna 1 & Dyna= 2) are=C2=A0removable and replaceable.........=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Marc the bolt patterns for all the various front covers ar= e virtually the same with some slight variations=C2=A0 in bolt spacing and = the number of bolts..........We=C2=A0 are currently=C2=A0planning on the us= e of the RX8 Renesis

2004-2008 front cover and water pump and it looks like it will fit withi= n the confines of the O/IO 540 mount ring by removing the alternator=C2=A0b= oss which stands on top of the water pump=C2=A0housing..............This wi= ll

necessitate relocating the alternator..........This has not been worked = out at this time.........The RX8 Renesis 2009-2011 front cover could be use= d also (We Think) but it is more complicated=C2=A0and incorporates the=C2= =A0

oil=C2=A0filter and we think a larger remote filter is a better option..= .........Also the current plan is to take oil directly=C2=A0from the oil pu= mp (As "Mistral" did) from the oil galley on the side of the fron= t housing (Plugged=C2=A0on the=C2=A0

stock side housing) directly to the oil filter=C2=A0and oil cooler inste= ad of out the front=C2=A0cover (A weak point particularly=C2=A0in early cov= ers at high oil pressure).............As far as front covers it would=C2=A0= be simple to order bolt=C2=A0

spacing for what ever=C2=A0cover you want (But) Here is the prob= lem...............The early water pump=C2=A0alloy housings and cas= t iron water pumps are not only heavy but they do not fit in the confines o= f the O/IO 540

mount ring and if the use of the 1986-1991 13B/20B ignition is planned w= e are not sure at this time if it would clear the mount ring ........That i= s the reason for use of the RX8 Renesis front cover (which requires=C2=A0

the use of a crankshaft trigger ignition).........We do not anticipate= =C2=A0producing a plate to fit the RX8 Renesis engine so anything=C2=A0we p= roduce=C2=A0 will be only for the 13B/20B engines...........All good questi= ons and we=C2=A0

are trying to come up with best solutions for several=C2=A0 possible pro= blems.........

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Just as a note of interest I have purchased a non airworthy (Junk= )=C2=A0 O-540 crankcase and currently have the "Vans" O-540 mount= ring bolted to it........This was done so we could accurately place the Ec= centric

shaft centerline of the 13B/20B in the exact same place of the O-540 cra= nkshaft centerline within the confines of the mount ring and judge how ever= ything will fit...........=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best,

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 4:08 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.n= et <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

Just remember there = must be an option on the bolt pattern, to fit the what?? The 13Brew tt, the= Renesis, the 20B (only has the non-crankshaft trigger ign type distributor= arrangement, and which was only offered in the AT version), etc. I am not = sure what the bolt differences are in them, but I bet there are some! So wh= at water pump and alternator provisions, as well as the trigger/distributor= needs to be made clear as to requirements.

I think that place i= n Australia offers aluminum side housings, abeit with some sort of embedded= wear surface (??? important), and maybe others. I=E2=80=99ve seen them off= ered before.

=C2=A0=

Marc

=C2=A0=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:25 PM
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific= 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing-pics

=C2=A0

Charlie,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 After rereading your post I missed your point of using a &= quot;Mistral Type" bolt on housing to the Renesis iron plate..........= ..Now that is something that could=C2=A0be doable...........Just for your

information=C2=A0my "Mistral" bolt on "Mount/Housing"= ; will bolt on to the "Renesis" front iron housing..........I do = not have a "Renesis" front housing in front=C2=A0of me but I beli= eve it is a little thicker

than a 13B/20B front housing because of the exhaust port..........This e= xtra thickness would=C2=A0probably make modifications to the oil pump gear = , spacers , and pulley stack necessary........

=C2=A0 Something to investigate !!..........

Best

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:07 PM Kelly Troyer <keltro@gmail.co= m> wrote:

Charlie,

=C2=A0Interesting point.........First question off the top of my head is= how well would alloy Renesis side plates tolerate exhaust gas going throug= h them and could stainless or inconel exhaust

inserts as in the 13B/20B be put in them (cost being a factor also) ?...= ..........All the aftermarket alloy side plates being produced to my knowle= dge are for the 13B/20B engines..........I

suppose=C2=A0it could be done but as of now all the aftermarket auto per= formance people using alloy side plates use the 13B/20B platform...........= Food for thought though.........

=C2=A0

Best=C2=A0

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:01 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gm= ail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :

Hi Kelly,

I hate to muddy the waters, but I wonder how much inter= est there would be in a Renesis plate vs the 13B plate. My personal prefere= nce is to use the Renesis, for various reasons. My wish list would be for a= Mistral-style accessory housing, but made for the Renesis.

Do keep = posting any updates, though. Like Todd said, any and all info is welcome.
Charlie

On 7/10/2020 6:33 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail= .com wrote:

=C2=A0 Todd,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks for the comment and it is well received............= Unless I hear otherwise from a majority of the group I will then keep all f= urther discussion on the group forum...............As a further

note if and when I acquire the mount/backplate under discussion I will p= robably add it to my "P" port 13BREW that I mentioned instead of = the "Mistral" mount/housing that I have......I have=C2=A0<= u>

a 20B but it would be seriously=C2=A0too much power and weight for my &q= uot;Dyke Delta" even if the 20B were all alloy housings..........

=C2=A0

Thanks Again,

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 5:55 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= u>

Hi Kelly;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0This mount idea is an excellent idea worth pursuing as a pr= actical engine mount is a major roadblock to many builders that are otherwi= se considering alternative engines.

=C2=A0 While I'm not currently in the market for one myself, so I ha= dn't raised my hand to say "count me in", but the future coul= d bring another project where I would be happy to have that availability of= a ready to go engine mount.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0However I'd like to encourage you to keep all further d= iscussion of this topic online. I'd much rather simply delete a convers= ation that I may not have an interest in, than see the list with no discuss= ion at all as we've seen all too often in the recent past. Any and all = discussion pertaining to rotary powered aircraft helps to keep the list act= ive and encouraging to other builders, as well as adding ideas to the archi= ves.

=C2=A0 The archives have been a gold mine of info for me over the years,= sometimes even reading my own comments to give me an insight as to "w= hat the hell was I thinking" when I came up with some failed concept. = But more often than not as a source of info for more successful concepts.

=C2=A0

Todd

C-FSTB

RV9 13Bturbo

=C2=A0

On Fri., Jul. 10, 2020, 11:21 Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com, = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

Flyrotary=C2=A0Forum Members,=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I appreciate=C2=A0the re= sponse of all members to my posts regarding the possible production of an <= strong>"Aircraft Specific Alloy 13B/20B combination Engine mount/Side = plate"

that would be a direct bolt in to a Lycoming O/IO 540 "30 d= egree Dyna 1" engine mount ring.............. There are sever= al aftermarket companies currently producing all the alloy

side housings that are necessary=C2=A0for an all alloy 13B/20B for the a= uto Racing crowd.........What we are trying to do is produce at this time i= s a front side housing specifically designed

with the proper mount points to be essentially bolt in to any aircraft t= hat normally be powered by any of several=C2=A0versions of the Lycoming O/I= O 540 engine..........The current plan is to

use the RX8 Renesis front cover with its water pump and ignition=C2=A0pi= ckup and retain the stock oil pump........This mount could also be used man= y other aircraft=C2=A0that normally would use=C2=A0

the Lycoming O/IO 320-360 engines by using the Lycoming O/IO 540 mount r= ing (currently available from "Vans" for about $150.00) with a 13= BREW engine (all alloy if wanted)........=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is a project that I have = a personal interest in and at this time cannot report a time schedule for i= ts completion.........I have committed for the first "Beta" housi= ng for testing=C2=A0

and will keep the forum appraised of progress...........The forum is pro= bably tired of me cluttering it up with this subject so for the time being = any of the group that have an interest in

this project or have any additional questions or concerns may E=C2=A0mai= l=C2=A0me directly if they choose..........Thanks for listening...........<= u>

=C2=A0

Best Regards

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:50 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

Guys,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 More info on the "Glasair 3" in Europe with &quo= t;Mistral" 20 B based rotary engine.........

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 4:59 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

Lynn,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Forgot to mention what the "Black" plate is.....= ....."Mistrall" took oil from the normally plugged oil galley on = the side of the front iron to a machined "O" ringed alloy plate t= hat

incorporated the oil filter and a "Vernitherm" (a Continental = part I think)=C2=A0 to bypass the oil=C2=A0cooler until=C2=A0oil temp got u= p to about 150 degrees F........I have this plate also..........<= /u>

=C2=A0

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 4:43 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

Marc & Lynn

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Yes the photo of the "Mistral" 13B engine on the = bench is like what my 13BREW will look like=C2=A0except it will have "= Racing Beat" alloy center & rear housings and will be "P"= ; ported........Their

early 13B engines were based on the 1986-1991 models.............Yes Lyn= n this is the early mount scheme that combines the alloy mount casting and = front cover into one unit that bolts to the=C2=A0

front iron and incorporates the water pump=C2=A0and mount for the altern= ator plus the pickup for their electronic ignition..........It also had pro= visions for a drive for a vacuum=C2=A0pump.........I did not get<= /u>

the gears for this drive (less expense)(electric airplane) with my housi= ng.........This casting mounts to a "Dynafocal=C2=A0Type 1" Lycom= ing O/IO 320-360 mount ring.........

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 1:31 PM lehanover lehanover@aol.com &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

= In both pictures the mount appears to attach to the front iron. And to a ca= st oil pan and a plate bolted to the left side of the front iron (black pla= te).............LEH

= =C2=A0

In a message dated 7/9/2020 1:38:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Great stuff. I saw a= nd read that Kitplanes article with great interest back when.=

Here=E2=80=99s some = conical mounting back plate pictures I found on my hard drive, I believe th= ey are all Mistral, but don=E2=80=99t know where they came from originally = (perhaps Paul Lamar=E2=80=99s group) One is a 13B named =E2=80=98Steve=E2= =80=99. Hopefully these pics get thru-there is a picture limit on this list= that makes it difficult to send larger files, so I didn=E2=80=99t send all= of them I have just of the backplate, what is the MB/KB limit here?=

Marc

=C2=A0=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2020 1:28 AM
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Ho= using

=C2=A0

Le Roux,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thanks for digging=C2=A0this up as it will answer a lot of= questions from the group..........This was the final iteration of "Mi= strals" alloy side housing / accessory drive

that was headed for US & European certification.........It incorpora= ted the "30 Deg= ree/#1 Dyna Mount Ears" for the Lycoming O/IO 540 engi= ne mount..........This is

what this thread is all about..........My friend is attempting=C2=A0to c= ome up with a less expensive version of this=C2=A0plate but without all the= accessory=C2=A0drives and using the

stock RX 8 front cover with stock water pump and ignition pickup (electr= ic airplanes)............Photos are worth a thousand words..........=

Thanks Again,

Kelly troyer=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 6:35 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

=C2=A0 Dave & Charlie,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Only the early "Mistral" 13B/20B based engines u= sed=C2=A0the bolt on front cover/accessory drive alloy cover that had mount= points that used the Lycoming=C2=A0O/IO 320-360 "Dynafocal Type 1&quo= t; mount ring.........I know this

as fact as I am the proud owner of one of these alloy housings.........I= have all the housings and parts to build a bastardized part alloy "P = port" 13BREW engine.........I retained the cast iron front (Rear in tr= actor A/C)

side housing because I was not comfortable having my engine hang on its = mounts from a housing attached only by several 6 mm bolts threaded=C2=A0int= o a cast alloy "Racing Beat" front side housing.........All the o= ther

housings (Center & Rear) are alloy "Racing Beat"..........= The earliest "Mistral" 20B engines also used this alloy front cov= er but also had mount points at the redrive end of the engine (Essentially = a Bed type Mount) and

only used the bottom two mount points on the accessory end of the engine= .........At that=C2=A0point in "Mistral's" engine development= the engines they sold to experimenters were basically "Mazda" en= gines and all their parts

were directly adaptable to a stock "Mazda" engine (such as my = engine)............The last iteration of their engines were designed=C2=A0t= o be certifiable so they had to have a verifiable=C2=A0manufacturing trail.= .........So they made

engineering changes in their parts to eliminate things about the stock &= quot;Mazda" parts that were=C2=A0not needed or were improvements for a= ircraft use..........Most of the last versions of their engines had parts t= hat were not

adaptable to the stock "Mazda" engines...........Long winded b= ut perhaps will enlighten some about the "Mistral" series of engi= nes..........

=C2=A0

Best,

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0 =C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:45 PM Kelly Troyer <keltro@gmail.com= > wrote:

Charlie and Mark,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Yes Charlie the accessory=C2=A0"iron"=C2= =A0side housing is what would be replaced with an aluminum housing with bui= lt in mount points that replicate the Lycoming O/IO 540 mount ears and loca= te the Mazda eccentric

shaft centerline in the same place as the Lycoming crankshaft centerline= and make the Mazda a bolt in to any aircraft using=C2=A0the O/IO 540 30 de= gree "Dyna1" mount system.............

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Mark I am well aware of the different opinions on us= ing the rear dyna focal mount on the Mazda.........Bill is correct about th= e need for .500 in/12.5mm studs and a stiffening plate and/or rigid oil sum= p to

further resistance to torsional twisting..........But remember that the = O/IO 540 family of engines with firewall forward weights of 400+ to over 50= 0 lbs for some turbo models are all using this mount system and

that an all alloy 13B or 20B (even with reduction drive) will be much li= ghter..........I do not believe that the "Mistral" 13B or 20B use= d alloy housings for other than the front accessory housing and I have neve= r

heard if they used the oversize .500 inch/12.5 mm studs in any of their = engines..........This is probably a question that will have to be proven on= e way or another in actual use..........IMHO

Best

Kelly Troyer

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 5:49 PM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.= net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=

Wonder why Mistral used dynafocal type mounting on their 13b and 20b des= igns?

M

Sent from my iPad

=C2=A0

On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:11 PM, William Jepson= wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net> wrote:

=C2=A0

Kelly,

The "dynafocal" type mount has been tried on the rotary but ha= s not worked out well..One of the obvious rotary traits is that it has a ho= t and cold side. Various methods have been used to limit this but there is = no way to eliminate it completely. Because of this the engine tends to &quo= t;work" and move around on the studs. Using the engine as a stressed m= ember is not recommended with the rotary. If=C2=A0 you were to do this anyw= ay I wouldn't do it without a stud kit. You will have better results=C2= =A0using a bed mount. YMMV

Bill Jepson

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:18 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /u>

I am in contact with a person with the design and manufacturing=C2= =A0capability to produce an=C2=A0= Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side=C2=A0Housing machined from 7075-= T6=C2=A0<= span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">with mount points that=C2=A0w= ould allow these engines

to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 de= gree number 1 Dyna) as used by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraf= t that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 engine..........This side plate is in the = preliminary design stage and at this

point I am a go between to = see if there would be any interest in this product if and when it is=C2=A0p= roduced...........I personally am interested this side plate........As we o= n this forum know both the 13B / 20B are capable of truly
amazing power = levels both naturally aspirated and turbo boosted.........The 20B would mak= e the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or Lancair's that use the Lycoming O/= IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost bolt in engine...........
=
The "Reno&q= uot; Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are producing almo= st 400 mph speeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines that are virtual= hand grenades pulling over 700 hp...........There are turbo 20B's pull= ing

1200 hp out in the auto racing world with good reliability..........= A 20B boosted to 700+ hp is not even breathing hard.........IMHO

Would l= ike to hear what interest there may be in this product if and when it may b= e produced............Or any comments pro or con..............=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kelly Troyer

--0000000000001454f105aa86cb25--