X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=GX+oVRehGphV4japGZv+zw==:117 a=MdSQJeINDwMNEIE/9bxyGw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=P-2d73wz7Mnz0Z7JhAwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=AF9gRirnKV74sCSd2wUA:9 a=-ZsWJLIr0RmuFCvC:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com ([209.85.222.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 507068 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 19:54:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.222.181; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id z63so162346qkb.8 for ; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 16:54:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=N8CH/zVz0cWup0XZMhi02CMszR/hbeNjevzcg3anVVU=; b=JAxtpu0zkspOO/WZ6LIKx2iNVONDzddLnI19Y/nUXWxGy6AAlaE5C+5gDZ31hQ7f9+ 7MeSjYW41JN1Wr4UNkIzKT8RtwT9ZlWxGoqyRZYt3j6eFC5d27bgErs7zFtTkoWA7roh thjY+ShKHTzNct2SuxKDaZkOncOraSA5SvqSuqul+mqZki3+QSuPe4PxrsFo5pjJXz4T pBKBNDDbYGG+oBUwK54u56TRk5gCv/4YZIB6bGtNVvu8oxeL1LiGbDTtMyZHY80swDyi j0yUu05bRURUS8blveTuNReXdAZREEzNz3JW5UW6ZbnNyG3ELol2NPVZmiLfr0060EUg s/Yg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=N8CH/zVz0cWup0XZMhi02CMszR/hbeNjevzcg3anVVU=; b=H/iXP7oyiM6Yfxc0D/JJV+EkwdzZ56vZ2Myoac/kTj+3rV11GbFbP3+u1Q33l1BSw3 UvLSLtoGlGmoZU0dwhRiaqFvNyFkxNxM0Q1bR8REDf486j6pQDywpa4V6p54LHHzBvdz zT8SrlZpJz7+Ersi0KZ14SYB9I4AwNKc5Food56vnz+XC0nzTksrxAGcQZ9LCQD9BOgC I9NeRGmh9DEJC+ZylfnC9JbZY8xwxw8QgUiYigk1lv4SbNODDo/QkWVId7Dz698s1CIe zFPyfdr5X+ZzidjyteCT2HMJW7WDTDiUMtd0cvCI9KUWRpRDPFYvrmTH6BG39ubmxCiH RHiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/IE9I949yXqITQ2yJhkFiAPZMHNxTu8ERErKyd2CUnLEy12eO w+7smFmqacLD/43FGE7FHZNsKquC X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1EO3qJiUFMY3FN7X9m+2fEuPE34jwkY0Qmd8xBzmzYDwbft1VTEUBKlJdtXTeON9qjNkxug== X-Received: by 2002:a37:b941:: with SMTP id j62mr47378954qkf.233.1594252448363; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 16:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.245] (mobile-166-170-59-101.mycingular.net. [166.170.59.101]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q5sm1769790qtf.12.2020.07.08.16.54.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Jul 2020 16:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 18:54:25 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6847972F3F115EF6F4E087B3" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 200708-8, 07/08/2020), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6847972F3F115EF6F4E087B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Without getting into the technical merits, it seems quite likely to me that they did it because that's one less change they would have to sell to airframe mfgrs. Stock motor mount and minimal cowl adjustments probably made them at least *think* that the engine would sell easier that way. *On* the technical merits, don't forget that supposedly, there are no stock Mazda parts in Mistral's engine (an attempt to meet production tracking requirements for certification). It's a real shame that they didn't try to sell to homebuilders as soon as they had a tested engine. They might have generated enough revenue to stay afloat, and be a real player in the certified market as a result. Same thing happened to LoPresti when he tried to bring the Swift Fury to market. If he'd simply produced the original airframe with only existing STC'd canopy & big-motor mods, he could have sold hundreds of planes and easily funded certification of what was effectively a new airplane type in the Fury. Instead, he held out for the updated type cert, and the venture failed. Charlie On 7/8/2020 5:48 PM, Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net wrote: > Wonder why Mistral used dynafocal type mounting on their 13b and 20b > designs? > M > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:11 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>  >> Kelly, >> The "dynafocal" type mount has been tried on the rotary but has not >> worked out well..One of the obvious rotary traits is that it has a >> hot and cold side. Various methods have been used to limit this but >> there is no way to eliminate it completely. Because of this the >> engine tends to "work" and move around on the studs. Using the engine >> as a stressed member is not recommended with the rotary. If  you were >> to do this anyway I wouldn't do it without a stud kit. You will have >> better results using a bed mount. YMMV >> Bill Jepson >> >> On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:18 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >> *I am in contact with a person with the design and manufacturing >> **capability to produce an **Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda >> Front Side** Housing machined from 7075-T6**with mount points >> that **would allow these engines* >> >> *to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 degree number 1 >> Dyna) as used by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraft that use the >> Lycoming O/IO 540 engine..........This side plate is in the >> preliminary design stage and at this >> >> point I am a go between to see if there would be any interest in >> this product if and when it is **produced...........I personally >> am interested this side plate........As we on this forum know >> both the 13B / 20B are capable of truly >> >> amazing power levels both naturally aspirated and turbo >> boosted.........The 20B would make the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or >> Lancair's that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost >> bolt in engine........... >> >> The "Reno" Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are producing >> almost 400 mph speeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines >> that are virtual hand grenades pulling over 700 >> hp...........There are turbo 20B's pulling >> >> 1200 hp out in the auto racing world with good >> reliability..........A 20B boosted to 700+ hp is not even >> breathing hard.........IMHO >> >> Would like to hear what interest there may be in this product if >> and when it may be produced............Or any comments pro or >> con..............* >> >> -- >> Kelly Troyer >> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------6847972F3F115EF6F4E087B3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Without getting into the technical merits, it seems quite likely to me that they did it because that's one less change they would have to sell to airframe mfgrs. Stock motor mount and minimal cowl adjustments probably made them at least *think* that the engine would sell easier that way.

*On* the technical merits, don't forget that supposedly, there are no stock Mazda parts in Mistral's engine (an attempt to meet production tracking requirements for certification). It's a real shame that they didn't try to sell to homebuilders as soon as they had a tested engine. They might have generated enough revenue to stay afloat, and be a real player in the certified market as a result. Same thing happened to LoPresti when he tried to bring the Swift Fury to market. If he'd simply produced the original airframe with only existing STC'd canopy & big-motor mods, he could have sold hundreds of planes and easily funded certification of what was effectively a new airplane type in the Fury. Instead, he held out for the updated type cert, and the venture failed.

Charlie

On 7/8/2020 5:48 PM, Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net wrote:
Wonder why Mistral used dynafocal type mounting on their 13b and 20b designs?
M

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2020, at 12:11 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Kelly,
The "dynafocal" type mount has been tried on the rotary but has not worked out well..One of the obvious rotary traits is that it has a hot and cold side. Various methods have been used to limit this but there is no way to eliminate it completely. Because of this the engine tends to "work" and move around on the studs. Using the engine as a stressed member is not recommended with the rotary. If  you were to do this anyway I wouldn't do it without a stud kit. You will have better results using a bed mount. YMMV
Bill Jepson

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1:18 AM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I am in contact with a person with the design and manufacturing capability to produce an Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing machined from 7075-T6 with mount points that would allow these engines

to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 degree number 1 Dyna) as used by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraft that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 engine..........This side plate is in the preliminary design stage and at this

point I am a go between to see if there would be any interest in this product if and when it is produced...........I personally am interested this side plate........As we on this forum know both the 13B / 20B are capable of truly

amazing power levels both naturally aspirated and turbo boosted.........The 20B would make the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or Lancair's that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost bolt in engine...........

The "Reno" Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are producing almost 400 mph speeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines that are virtual hand grenades pulling over 700 hp...........There are turbo 20B's pulling

1200 hp out in the auto racing world with good reliability..........A 20B boosted to 700+ hp is not even breathing hard.........IMHO

Would like to hear what interest there may be in this product if and when it may be produced............Or any comments pro or con..............  

--
Kelly Troyer



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