X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=tLVkGcUD+41DYyML/6qw1Q==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=rPEeNEo3lH8A:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=qnwHmHPYhI6YDGaihikA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=GBZKE_NBAAAA:8 a=qjttKSJpLhCqaH_O:21 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=kZBJ7nflOVY83HLdyZAa:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.133.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 506442 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jul 2020 16:08:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.133.42; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1594238870; bh=C/7i25vOGmhgCxy6NjRrXbubsC+C7nHVBUqQjauGhxk=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=O6wmRoOnduhR9Dn90tnk6YGmRdSDOK0Nk7omIua6Y/Hl+47iXSWuuKkZe8WD5EtXWVbyyq1Q6g1KtCGLTeSWSC9vfxghT76GNhpRfOTyjORVA1byiPR5ou1ILA0PVHb3EWJBOG+6EjGO9MRzmi2XDzAe9QQUL8OAJmlyFa6aZi7CCOihYVUDCKCH4IUtFZvXuKYZ9Re3qjPuPl6W7K6wSVfEigIRkrJ6kjDPE+fqoNfQgIeXb2D30LwRWowerEefz5XI795mtSuJ0Va47WsaF8DmeZlhDMOyV8KMiWbu7Qy+b5mxA/cEeFphCep5lH1vONmv61bLUeszRUrUY5PXww== X-YMail-OSG: eR14APcVM1kVMXA_VllnmK9YUYyYq0lfoNwMGNDR1XcVKrm1XvkwyR6ki4NigKz GQmueyZ06_qyd83Uhuh21NDe8o6bFicV343HxfY.NYMWyaYYv0hWQHwjtcY2ZzMGEqD9aEQDGLqm L7NeUMKj3z2wY_FY6mt5r.ZoxQXC2wToVUYnay062FgKNGXyT5XRprcqON3hy8Gf78VFK_tS6eZh VU69G3EmPGTrI.xqK5IzHzf9DRlF5xxFLJ7oF.WSkMw4G2xxLE20h6y7H0IoKXga8Ots6sWP.KGp GmlNuOZvln1gYBuMfiVaOAfFL_c6L8QapP31v0FazQskaahGxWgRVtcwg2cc5BUx6Ohd8mi_JP8H NTJ_l8eWifirPUtJeyBsLHLbTrUSwByL8v5LY3FvYyXZossc3KYKbaoVJQ0CZwSbT49acl2TAQfX R6tgTY04T4m1nOZzW66yR1e1RgqgZ7GMGr_FRM3d_yxYsX7XWJKELPsUn3fOPSXQ8W1SEKfhJQdv YUh3Oyy6_NgwSA6xVJ8KQRxTIUuME2x3SvGB7RZA.1.ri73OPOYfMc1zps5krk4OCcIP94yfMgea KtH9t0.nSKDFogt0LxskdEcwrTcgGi6BXB_66SJnSW3SYCLJrA8ShovYuZvnUOuAKAG.bLzwgPjg QPVBXa3fJERvDomedidy0x0BADyAJRM8E7KL_jkplM3SEUBGKUKJPMcuySme5sMkTy95Q4oX_fJ1 JkNGtaaLq_6jMX6vNzV63gSOIClMngJF1oqZcSuUgg_xDmp4k.rPrOFdeBMErKcxkYKaciCellqi wVgsm_CpQs1hOCCORlCu2UIpUqsqFhy35xoHbIMLTZqm6byO41N6buaCMPYYOAK6pFXt84_FbG47 qje8LCouxnK3HNoDvjCMBkTna5thWPVU9owbknkoVp1WR4c3yYp6egwvlqBydtGZ2l.2P4vW2T6X Gy09P86gTW2FUAAr_g5iHqlKLEI0lyrgt7jB01F9Hh6qh76ORQuITEOC89YZWB4hu4pwuspTTLYP WSaYL5gFL2pAB4xMH7WUMv9Kud89dU_oQgcMO8OnaY92BeG022KNseV8_cWi9lDpKx4UxXVRoQS8 eLX3T5Lux0rEkHxTGiYp_Hthj.WL1kBAM2KeZJhC0BZmWhr3Efk4U_N.5Xf4tCyB8x2tb.bXP2.l PYljWA3FXyaFKNO.XlvFwYNNcS7Eg4qqaW4kcxCeuvoPhqQZn9MlPi2fZQIb2aDrvUsPsS.euImF ypKlz_4cJYB4nLq7gcTYJBkIJ6ChOUhMft_58yRqiWzr7FCL_25e3IMMvOnfp00eDOkN2GckKjzM S7EENmxXpznMypX4kKbQxd7Td Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 20:07:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 20:07:45 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1426397029.2302950.1594238865276@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side Housing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2302949_630851446.1594238865274" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16197 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_252) Content-Length: 18954 ------=_Part_2302949_630851446.1594238865274 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I note that Mazda moved from a front cover mounted motor mount, to side mot= or mounts located on the center iron housing. In racing the studs in the fr= ont cover kept deforming the holes and coming loose. I drilled the stud hol= es oversize. Put in larger diameter studs clear through the cover. I drille= d through the studs at 90 degrees and pinned them in place with roll pins. = I used red Locktite on the threads. All inside the front cover. I cannot imagine supporting the engine by the front cover alone. I have see= n a thick plate along the bottom between the oil pan and engine. Just like = a Continental bed mount.=C2=A0 The flywheel end of that plate bolts to the = more common mount bolted on using the bell housing bolt holes and has the t= wo Lord=C2=A0 mounts just as in a Bonanza. One Lord mount is in constant te= nsion and should have a mechanical means to retain the height of the mount = should there be a failure. The opposing Lord mount is in constant compressi= on and is less likely to fail. The fire wall end would have an extension so= as to have space for a vertical "V" shaped strut to control up and down lo= cation of the engine. That strut would be adjustable so as to control pitch= angle. I would research as to how the drag racers hold onto their engines. The bot= tom half of the engine is hot and the top is cold, so they tend to want to = curve up. The plate idea could help control this. But I could be completely wrong.....Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0 In a message dated 7/8/2020 1:26:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lan= caironline.net writes: Mark and All Interested, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Let me clear up the questions about this = side plate housing.........First it is only the front hsg (firewall side in= a/c)..........All the other cast iron hsgs are available in aluminum from = sources such as "Racing Beat"in the US and several other suppliers in Canad= a , Australia & New Zealand if an all alloy engine is desired.........To an= swer your question Mark this hsg mimics the last iteration of the "Mistral"= engines mount methodbut hopefully not as complicated or expensive........R= emember "Mistral" was building engines to be certified and we are "Experime= ntal"............. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Currently=C2=A0the plan is for the hsg to= have intake ports like the 13B/20B (or no ports if "P" port is desired)...= ......Plan at present is to use the RX-8 , 2004-2008 Renesis front cover an= d waterpump.........It has been ascertained that this front cover will fit in the confines of the O/IO 540 = Lycoming mount ring by removing the alternator mount boss (on top of the ho= using) and relocating the alternator..........The oil pump would remain stock.........The early 13B/20B front covers could be used with only differ= ent=C2=A0bolt spacing on the various covers but the water pump=C2=A0hsgs of= the early 13B/20B are problematic..........Mark Steitle of this group adap= ted theRX8 water pump=C2=A0to his 20B by cutting the pump hsg from=C2=A0the= RX8 cover and bolting to his engine..........The Rx8 cover has provision f= or a stock crank angle sensor........Hope this answers some of your questio= ns andI will be happy to answer any others that you may have........... =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On a personal note I think that if there is some= one out there with the drive and financial=C2=A0means that a killer "Sport = Class" race plane utilizing an all alloy , boosted 20B with a realistic 100= 0 hp available is possiblebut it would take dedication and money.........Th= at said for those of us that do not live at that level a more modest RV10 ,= Glasair or Lancair with up to a 300 hp 20B is doable and more important af= fordable........IMHO Best,Kelly Troyer=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:40 AM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net wrote: ? The automotive front becomes aircraft rear; Tranny side becomes PSRU, so = you are right about the starter location, that is on =E2=80=98rear=E2=80=99= automotive housing, my bad.=C2=A0I=E2=80=99m guessing oil pump, water pump= , alt, crank angle pickup (20b uses old style distributor while 13brew TT u= ses crank angle sensors), other subtle changes for brackets, etc? A la Mist= ral mount?M Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: I think he's talking about the other end. Sent from BlueMailOn Jul 8, 2020, at 10:04 AM, "Marcus Wiese cardmarc@chart= er.net" wrote: I would be interested in 2 or 3 of them. What =E2=80=98features=E2=80=99 wo= uld it have? Would it use the standard AT bolt pattern for the AT reduction= starter, etc? All 20bs were AT, as were many 13b rew TT and Cosmo engines = (which I concentrate on)Marc Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:17 AM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com wrote: I am in contact with a person with the design and manufacturing=C2=A0capabi= lity to produce an=C2=A0Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front Side=C2=A0Hou= sing machined from 7075-T6=C2=A0with mount points that=C2=A0would allow the= se engines to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 degree number 1 Dyna) as used = by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraft that use the Lycoming O/IO 540 engin= e..........This side plate is in the preliminary design stage and at this point I am a go between to see if there would be any interest in this produ= ct if and when it is=C2=A0produced...........I personally am interested thi= s side plate........As we on this forum know both the 13B / 20B are capable= of truly amazing power levels both naturally aspirated and turbo boosted.........The= 20B would make the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or Lancair's that use the Lycom= ing O/IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost bolt in engine........... The "Reno" Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are producing almost 400 mp= h speeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines that are virtual hand gre= nades pulling over 700 hp...........There are turbo 20B's pulling 1200 hp out in the auto racing world with good reliability..........A 20B b= oosted to 700+ hp is not even breathing hard.........IMHO Would like to hear what interest there may be in this product if and when i= t may be produced............Or any comments pro or con..............=C2=A0= =C2=A0 --=20 Kelly Troyer ------=_Part_2302949_630851446.1594238865274 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I note that Mazda moved from a front cover mounted mo= tor mount, to side motor mounts located on the center iron housing. In raci= ng the studs in the front cover kept deforming the holes and coming loose. = I drilled the stud holes oversize. Put in larger diameter studs clear throu= gh the cover. I drilled through the studs at 90 degrees and pinned them in = place with roll pins. I used red Locktite on the threads. All inside the fr= ont cover.

I cannot imagine supporting the engine by the front c= over alone. I have seen a thick plate along the bottom between the oil pan = and engine. Just like a Continental bed mount.  The flywheel end of th= at plate bolts to the more common mount bolted on using the bell housing bo= lt holes and has the two Lord  mounts just as in a Bonanza. One Lord m= ount is in constant tension and should have a mechanical means to retain th= e height of the mount should there be a failure. The opposing Lord mount is= in constant compression and is less likely to fail. The fire wall end woul= d have an extension so as to have space for a vertical "V" shaped strut to = control up and down location of the engine. That strut would be adjustable = so as to control pitch angle.

I would research as to how the drag racers hold onto = their engines. The bottom half of the engine is hot and the top is cold, so= they tend to want to curve up. The plate idea could help control this.
=

But I could be completely wrong.....Lynn E. Hanover&n= bsp;

In a message dated 7/8/2020 1:26:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lan= caironline.net writes:

Mark and All Interested,

         Let me clear up the questions about = this side plate housing.........First it is only the front hsg (firewall si= de in a/c)..........All the other cast iron hsgs are available in aluminum = from sources such as "Racing Beat"
in the US and several other suppliers in Canada , Australia & New = Zealand if an all alloy engine is desired.........To answer your question M= ark this hsg mimics the last iteration of the "Mistral" engines mount metho= d
but hopefully not as complicated or expensive........Remember "Mistral= " was building engines to be certified and we are "Experimental"...........= ..

         Currently the plan is for the h= sg to have intake ports like the 13B/20B (or no ports if "P" port is desire= d).........Plan at present is to use the RX-8 , 2004-2008 Renesis front cov= er and waterpump.........It has been
ascertained that this front cover will fit in the confines of the O/IO= 540 Lycoming mount ring by removing the alternator mount boss (on top of t= he housing) and relocating the alternator..........The oil pump would remai= n
stock.........The early 13B/20B front covers could be used with only d= ifferent bolt spacing on the various covers but the water pump hs= gs of the early 13B/20B are problematic..........Mark Steitle of this group= adapted the
RX8 water pump to his 20B by cutting the pump hsg from the R= X8 cover and bolting to his engine..........The Rx8 cover has provision for= a stock crank angle sensor........Hope this answers some of your questions= and
I will be happy to answer any others that you may have...........

       On a personal note I think that if there is= someone out there with the drive and financial means that a killer "S= port Class" race plane utilizing an all alloy , boosted 20B with a realisti= c 1000 hp available is possible
but it would take dedication and money.........That said for those of = us that do not live at that level a more modest RV10 , Glasair or Lancair w= ith up to a 300 hp 20B is doable and more important affordable........IMHO<= /div>

Best,
Kelly Troyer   

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 1= 0:40 AM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
? The automotive front becomes aircraft rear; Tranny side becomes PSRU= , so you are right about the starter location, that is on ‘rear&rsquo= ; automotive housing, my bad. 
I’m guessing oil pump, water pump, alt, crank angle pickup (20b = uses old style distributor while 13brew TT uses crank angle sensors), other= subtle changes for brackets, etc? A la Mistral mount?
M

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:31 AM, Charlie England ceengla= nd7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:

I think he's talking about the other end.

Sent from BlueMail
On Jul 8, 2020, at 10:04 AM, "Marcu= s Wiese cardmarc@charter.net" <flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I would be inte= rested in 2 or 3 of them. What ‘features’ would it have? Would = it use the standard AT bolt pattern for the AT reduction starter, etc? All = 20bs were AT, as were many 13b rew TT and Cosmo engines (which I concentrat= e on)
Marc

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 8, 2020, at 3:17 AM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.co= m <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= br>
I am in cont= act with a person with the design and manufacturing capability to produce an Aviation Specific 13B/20B Mazda Front= Side Housing m= achined from 7075-T6 with mount points that would allow these engines

to be a bolt in to the engine mount ring (30 degre= e number 1 Dyna) as used by the "Vans" RV-10 and other aircraft that use th= e Lycoming O/IO 540 engine..........This side plate is in the preliminary d= esign stage and at this

point I am a go between to see if there woul= d be any interest in this product if and when it is produced...........I personally am interested this side plate..= ......As we on this forum know both the 13B / 20B are capable of truly
<= br>amazing power levels both naturally aspirated and turbo boosted.........= The 20B would make the Van's RV-10 , Glasair 3 or Lancair's that use the Ly= coming O/IO 540 an easy 300+ hp almost bolt in engine...........

The= "Reno" Sport Class "Glasairs" and Lancairs" are producing almost 400 mph s= peeds using dual turbo Lycoming IO-550 engines that are virtual hand grenad= es pulling over 700 hp...........There are turbo 20B's pulling

1200 = hp out in the auto racing world with good reliability..........A 20B booste= d to 700+ hp is not even breathing hard.........IMHO

Would like to h= ear what interest there may be in this product if and when it may be produc= ed............Or any comments pro or con..............  

--
Kelly Troyer



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