X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=pfiIW4oFxDwNar2vhMQO2w==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=e8BSqymJ620A:10 a=_RQrkK6FrEwA:10 a=hrdC1p5twJAA:10 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=8AVOsQ9P28SkXshqPvMA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=Usg7BDwgmnv1ZN8KCIYA:9 a=AC8KBUqskazs0QRh:21 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "A RICHARD GOLDMAN argoldman@aol.com" Received: from sonic301-22.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.64.148] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 504028 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 19:55:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.64.148; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1594166141; bh=ngE/YWLuJ8JCA2prMZQY7A2RAMNFJZu77H0pM84G2jY=; h=From:Date:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:To:From:Subject; b=bOQWh9eKYnOaVZLy8UFuJYGfCXZJHRNFQ111B9mzt9AFzAR+Io2evWsQwUQQ2SMsQiIsuOFzf2ntAU9XzlcLson4MqlRYqW2MWtYXkeNZVWvgD749iOw9r+y34XVaG+jw3Czsr0Pc/oF0GJoNwvLlr5IeAC9+6GSEvser/0hjFX5EfpbExBihEL5P3B3UqJwzb41TH/tugM7xIqU/e3GvV6Mwswhvic9ufFMnAvlhPXsbYr3wHAwn4pNzfEH4OqQ1m0XV5bRY5uwA3jy/iK+QmcbfLyrWvwiK8ELk6pVLvfbPoKBxE/QtkIN9IOHLTAvbj2/oiBGeZNVxh6m4zoxlA== X-YMail-OSG: aB1APBAVM1kFp7HdILRF6dLjJFM9m.ZpwSAlccLvs_GoDnHfosXKLb9ZhOWLqcN pNWh3YaIb6eYU68aOxOEhj5YTmVS678kZLOITAyA3gG8ub.kdVesZJVOik5zZGpkKX.zHgh7Ti4b r9RzLxfJTS.hNdDS5MuP38hx73WNXuS_CZzlK5Z1NiRx94QuHp4w3aGHAIaSnFUkVQUEc6N9lzCW A0h9tinFRhwQv6shppUNQ0So_eD29NctihpF75SXM2FVjj6WexFlHxurovfqWHMARhZmGF6JxnPk 1j1Ea_QdOiIhHBRbgC9CIetY07HNzObEepQCwYb94j.zyDEEK9fgq7jdvZoDJ0qcGPzVXiOzMkPc KhKfDljYwcZygjbhwBnv0yE5GYvbLsacLmeOJfZfHcxm1okwmkRFc793uZZ06g7V9uaIe0rRl53. XSRylG.m3EIBz3pYXVFK_TUkbZtCqDjm4okR8PQhAsdRxk1CVpziji2jAivD6H5lk7se2VIQ.KJT q1cVX6CWUlovbjWkYG8zHJNSSw_UgcchESkyhreesmX5wUdyBnR4sUFcxckGo0iX6jU4akvtOkoO dxKiHcqiucXVbzd71i4eE_yEc4d6nr0yfZTpOxHptvRgGXvE82y4YmG3h4kkfTIALHw5FBq8avoY X7CoGl3NU.rxIQf6Yym9mhBQHewhhkCJX9_JHwqAQa9vUQ5fSaNpxrcVNEocZ3xqxchp7kMlY7gB z1V15tbzrKQadclANnudileJsbMj4jeKErD68w_ddY3zvcwFQePTM5ueJ72JQA5_AzEpxL5VWMLs 7o3YmDe48AINVfcFUnuU4l4EzLYwNFf94nDdlpLcC0QmAK7opDbvhCc8XHvEM_nuwQ1uIRFGl5mi bodnp1tEMr18WMktsiD9YDlKZSCzDv_kVo63Ra74rMfkjgVml8gIFPbyGyVD6Cc_plQUYpCbLWMl CAzmsrL5JJAFX8efNnQDSkMRrCMfMkSyCM5yDYvDTO.7lNq7eE9rgxgM.CnEe5MswHVf1feYsSAv CuA7v2s7oLTKwMsZt355jIWzai_AL2In1nPa7vwkDFkfR4B3gdQapi8Dgg2guWBwr3b5HTN2ChYO WAFjSacARmN6gwZcHwDhpB8bnqy9wDf4NLcGNZilEBCK48yZsySmg8on3ihZZZXqpxmUBtlkIB1a 7_k03Z2A8Wn4FaoL9Dd2w9WDUnSXV.NiM9QYeE9VHSR9cMVnfsKqqtYP4u9YdVGQ_bkU7Viuf8cO YrStfv6JZ9XYCbf8swUzroQUtwy.c0XtURej6SAwuLS3co74IInohWnTUa0v.FZ4SsigNXlRSAQj eAElk87Es5pxEtsYzq5etxtmU.Qkq6w73w7cTsarQbvAkKP7K_Tz.zU14ogb0Z3t2KC4I2Q72qbb wSjNqTCLuFZOnv16lQEWgFo10cnysAxrzqyRIKmxqY.mL5_9JMdnT Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 23:55:41 +0000 Received: by smtp430.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 18f5d5e613673e50d9a2fd72072dafb9; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 23:55:38 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D190180B-934A-44B8-BD50-821EA92B1956 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 18:55:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EC3 software for Renesis RX-8/LS2 coils fixed and uploaded Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G183) Content-Length: 10788 --Apple-Mail-D190180B-934A-44B8-BD50-821EA92B1956 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Finn, At this point I am leaning more toward just using the -3 unchanged and see w= hat happens. That is unless the update gives more than the closed loop. (Wha= t advantage does that really give) and is easily available.=20 I do appreciate your tutorage. Would there really be an advantage to the upd= ate and is it available? Thanks again Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >=20 > Turns out that the C28 change is/was not needed. > =46rom the EC3 program comments: > ";*****???? Closed Loop testing.?????? Mode 1 works very well except that a= t low throttle there is some hunting.?? Engine wants to be richer at low thr= ottle. > ;?????????????? The O2 sensor response on N109TC seems to be too slow, may= need new O2 sensor.?? This causes a little hunting at low throttle and way t= oo much hunting (to the point of MAP table undershoot) in Mode 3. > ;06-13-12?? Possible reason for slow O2 response is too much capacitance o= n the sensor line.?? With the EM3 installed and the EC3, there is a total of= .2uf.?? I am changing these values to .001 in an effort to=20 > ;speed up response." >=20 > I highlighted "possible". > Not documented, but appears the problem was handled by software changes. > In any case, if your unit is from 2010 it won't have the closed loop mode.= >=20 > Tracy told me not to change C28 on my board. Only recommended the CAS clam= ping circuit posted elsewhere. >=20 > In any case, if you decide to reprogram your chips to get the latest code t= hat include closed loop mode, and then discover a lagging O2 sensor problem,= you can always change C28. > In my case I do not use theEM3?? O2 sensor input. I get?? it from the EC3.= (That is a user?? option in the EM3). >=20 > I have seen no evidence that programming for knock sensor input was actual= ly done. On other words, hardware is there, no software for it. I could be w= rong. >=20 > Finn >=20 >> On 7/6/2020 3:38 PM, argoldman@aol.com wrote: >> Hi Fin, and all >>=20 >> Been?? pouring over the schematics etc. for ec-3 and em-3 that have been p= osted. >> At the outset let me confess that I am a rank dyslexic beginner at readin= g (and understanding) schematics. >>=20 >> I have a ec-3 and em-3 which my records show that I purchased in April of= 2010. >> Reading through the documents, it seems like the only change he made with= the?? 6/13/12??update??was to substitute a .001uf cap for existing at C28. W= as the only change. For what reason was it done and is it suggested to make t= hat modification. >>=20 >> I also noticed that he has an input lead pin 38 IC1 for a knock sensor. >>=20 >> Was there a software update between when I got mine and when he stopped s= hipping. Is it available and is it significantly important. Was the knock se= nsor included in that upgrade? >>=20 >>=20 >> HELP!!!?? I'm learning just enough to become dangerous (mainly t= o my psyche) as I near the engine installation and testing (probably early n= ext spring or with the weather we have been having--mid winter. (Chicago) >>=20 >> Any suggestions (other than to can the RMS (already installed)) to soothe= my psyche? >>=20 >> Thanks again >>=20 >> Rich >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > Virus-free. www.avast.com --Apple-Mail-D190180B-934A-44B8-BD50-821EA92B1956 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Finn,

At this point I am leaning more toward just using the -3 unchanged and see what happens. That is unless the update gives more than the closed loop. (What advantage does that really give) and is easily available. 

I do appreciate your tutorage. Would there really be an advantage to the update and is it available?

Thanks again

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 7, 2020, at 9:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Turns out that the C28 change is/was not needed.
From the EC3 program comments:
";*****???? Closed Loop testing.?????? Mode 1 works very well except that at low throttle there is some hunting.?? Engine wants to be richer at low throttle.
;?????????????? The O2 sensor response on N109TC seems to be too slow, may need new O2 sensor.?? This causes a little hunting at low throttle and way too much hunting (to the point of MAP table undershoot) in Mode 3.
;06-13-12?? Possible reason for slow O2 response is too much capacitance on the sensor line.?? With the EM3 installed and the EC3, there is a total of .2uf.?? I am changing these values to .001 in an effort to
;speed up response."

I highlighted "possible".
Not documented, but appears the problem was handled by software changes.
In any case, if your unit is from 2010 it won't have the closed loop mode.

Tracy told me not to change C28 on my board. Only recommended the CAS clamping circuit posted elsewhere.

In any case, if you decide to reprogram your chips to get the latest code that include closed loop mode, and then discover a lagging O2 sensor problem, you can always change C28.
In my case I do not use theEM3?? O2 sensor input. I get?? it from the EC3. (That is a user?? option in the EM3).

I have seen no evidence that programming for knock sensor input was actually done. On other words, hardware is there, no software for it. I could be wrong.

Finn

On 7/6/2020 3:38 PM, argoldman@aol.com wrote:
Hi Fin, and all

Been?? pouring over the schematics etc. for ec-3 and em-3 that have been posted.
At the outset let me confess that I am a rank dyslexic beginner at reading (and understanding) schematics.

I have a ec-3 and em-3 which my records show that I purchased in April of 2010.
Reading through the documents, it seems like the only change he made with the?? 6/13/12??update??was to substitute a .001uf cap for existing at C28. Was the only change. For what reason was it done and is it suggested to make that modification.

I also noticed that he has an input lead pin 38 IC1 for a knock sensor.

Was there a software update between when I got mine and when he stopped shipping. Is it available and is it significantly important. Was the knock sensor included in that upgrade?


HELP!!!?? I'm learning just enough to become dangerous (mainly to my psyche) as I near the engine installation and testing (probably early next spring or with the weather we have been having--mid winter. (Chicago)

Any suggestions (other than to can the RMS (already installed)) to soothe my psyche?

Thanks again

Rich





Virus-free. www.avast.com
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