X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=RZTu9Glv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=5yf43psaEiN9LoqIfzt0Fg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=e8BSqymJ620A:10 a=nTHF0DUjJn0A:10 a=DK2GG6i_IL4A:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=2uJievEa1iHw2P1FYAkA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=d46lUuF_AAAA:8 a=vaaluL2wjXoaBTuqP7EA:9 a=Ck5SJuDUG6Fzmdva:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=6lK6DICRFWFJG_1PXtoD:22 From: "A RICHARD GOLDMAN argoldman@aol.com" Received: from sonic307-8.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.64.32] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 433703 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Jun 2020 20:57:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.64.32; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1593478604; bh=jlAKzrTMxd8EF/DDUSGoQU1RXqnP1qGqc5Y4242upjw=; h=From:Date:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:To:From:Subject; b=VQIpHwiVj7w0mnmHTM4fne1hBGrY0FVsyg5DyFiL9n3kQxB/zgd5ZeY/iC9FQ/mTU5vNuMrfcxBb6i1Lyso2LYYukMDksa1KY9R1S3Ybo8R2FdY05htxHLsPZ4R4OTQKLuzssXf/Sis+tl6+8WU9tKLPeQORnZhS5SpNBqWTWi0kdg1c4Ba+Iyo0drhlRKClxGaEBMJPVTLbn2FZ9oc0XIWU0xUhi1fZwOsP9lmvhKuoal4XQk8UcTH6PQpz7tvWVCSylj0cZOHOvUu5jPaXnjY4me6uLhZMcxY+utXl61p6574DDg4kWXAA3Lr1LCNgzTeUEneEpzRQTtBlk2A37Q== X-YMail-OSG: xCC46bcVM1m1Oe.64TmrBY1c_ikkeljVHBw8nChOXoArUyM8fcIkyInW2MJW_bX COX1EDhK2BZsgxAiVo6z3Lb.XpLqqYm3OTmnrUGG0aqKJkth.VpWPsrBzF85Wk5lm9YOgFQ7uuJg fqYeQtsf0tjfqd83aa9clKVFcx6yTkEniChTezMiXs3BptVgZyFTnwHrhtH8Ef_4HNJFgfJ7jKoC DYe7hdavvqlwLeMf3qjbeI9jPha.ZvgmcftplAFUmpzWauD7aV4QN7tasf8.LaFoFf1yIcDrZCDT KPUh9R_u2gAuR_82OC8yRmx9WLk4C.J_T.1BWCp4CFen9W8Tu1.xC55I0o2jKeZTrhuXl2rGi.p4 GlC6gEKcIOsghNGwD4r1h7yOChyZVjspOkkDDh_BSu8pw1x9JDxiUfoZ33x0lakx4rCU1ef6yLUl bSkj40MgTxAgUUNztBfUG0bMprouH0v0H8g4tW1m01VAwBw1xyiuhPt5jwGciR42eK78bXeMtJ2O .Fre5sL_FE964exnCJ3HijohwvQL5wRoHPp76EUkwQc2M5p39zJFRqYqtAGUMoUu1jr5Svdcd8e_ ldN1TU97S825eAPrGyPnJy74YE31xRd1WMkZ.Kyut9l80pnC2Ly6yaZQhE6Hxc6BP5LYb0z_Xs.X 8VEaO4dm2wsrvM.n0xVokkU_5OZtoffvOxe196bQ056lMOUkl8CCPxKo5YMtBy.cG4BN4SY92z3X .mpstPlheNRnmQMj3LvlMx5TrX2uQkjJ8n1K84dYYIyvA46fYuHAA9sbCB4CBws.uqiHirU0bjfY U.qVfsxQHGs6ouqUFaE.wmLzgfe4k.tNF3FI_gnME8U88UopxRw3_6gxJv710ju9Lia5uxUF865j OkWcWiMUx.j6H6NueTmbdXiYxyu0VC2vV_u1nZ4Cg7uHavIGmwWypH.EJBtzQiNCwe1IpNNC5U.u I2h8wHM5XPZN0lSex4sC3AEMjwBqWeRbcr_ulM1bqkfUSD8PxrvfB_c6DBBZ50pAeenG2i9ZukVf rVqTYnJH808EvIavQEE6Gibr_TxUWJILwM9DavsWFJXqTxEhlFkTZpzlyXLzzFhWGQPw4qmb2KIU LjUorpXaHp3.iqy0P173PxoX5XgjrLG.yPhrXahYBg_NQX.lir02DPgeZOWY0i6G2HRT6W0XFFG0 S.d7lOr1Ta8ukdrN0PB4mkP5iKFian8FQbC4QpJ4mS4.6xPcgsz_Ed_rxfMTHg5ZhqLIlmhEumEO VBs1vNVXfKez_VjVPOFSM7.0pWj9HviseNEd6BX9P2AIqHZUoyy8iPIH3oEh7nXEkByEFxIN8X2t l1YT1tA.L8n.v8FXX16I3LFqOMjXGeXuffXIWf3hpvqG2N5.1MFfaZspp_GtZCFidvA5uduv7fFh 8_aBK Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2020 00:56:44 +0000 Received: by smtp426.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 907333d62d6a9ab2514901ef23158150; Tue, 30 Jun 2020 00:56:42 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-063386C3-F4F3-4FE8-A29F-8CEFD6B9EC4A Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 19:56:38 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis break-in Message-Id: <18C95A92-88CB-4C66-8B93-BB1F8DA6207A@aol.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16G183) Content-Length: 23884 --Apple-Mail-063386C3-F4F3-4FE8-A29F-8CEFD6B9EC4A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =F0=9F=98=81=F0=9F=98=81=F0=9F=98=81 thanks for your (all y=E2=80=99all) pat= ience.=20 Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 29, 2020, at 5:05 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >=20 > That is correct. Fear not. Even 1/2 ounce is far more than a stock engine g= ets at full tilt. Otherwise the sump would be empty in two weeks. Most of th= e free engines gifted to me had been run dry of crank case oil. >=20 > Still I got good irons and cranks an rotors out of most of them.........LE= H >=20 > In a message dated 6/29/2020 5:12:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes: >=20 >=20 > Lynn, >=20 > I think that I am getting it.now . What you are saying is to use 1/2 oz/ga= l poor quality crank case oil per gallon as a pre-mix and not use the stand= ard pre-mix oil at all during the break-in. (am I close?) >=20 > Thanks for bearing with me. >=20 > Rich >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 6/29/2020 1:53:23 PM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes: >=20 > Not a full one ounce per gallon....One half ounce per gallon....of crank c= ase oil. The same poor quality oil as you will have in the sump. You need th= e side seals, the corner seals and the ends of the apex seals to become frie= ndly with the irons. The break in period is very short. Two to six hours ov= er several days. Never over 180 degrees on coolant. At 2,000 to 2,500 RPM. T= his is not a heavy load. A great time to see if any leaks have developed or t= he exhaust is melting something. A fresh engine will not be fouled with car= bon in this amount of time. If the engine is coming apart for annual or any= other reason, do it for one housing but not the other. > Remember what you see. If you use a synthetic case oil and a racing synthe= tic top oil you will not need this at all. >=20 > The water idea is for an engine that is about to come apart for overhaul. O= r a street car that is nearly junk and running poorly. Disconnect the reacto= r before you do this. Every bit of carbon that was in the engine will soon b= e in the reactor.....and ruin the reactor. This is not my idea. I saw this h= appen to a Chevy van that had a dead cylinder and I was shocked. Then "Hemi"= Ranken said just wait until we take a head off. So I did and then I saw 1= 50,000 mile cylinder head and pistons looking as though new. Not one speck o= f carbon. I cannot stop doing it. It is so much more pleasant to work on a c= lean engine. >=20 > Look at the filter paper.....Go to town with new oil and two cycle in the p= remix...LEH >=20 > In a message dated 6/29/2020 11:31:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 > Head still breaking-in >=20 > Len, just to clarify, >=20 > Do you mean to put an additional 1/2 oz per gal conventional oil in the al= ready added premix (about 1.5 oz total pre and conventional oil?). >=20 > Additionally in a newly overhauled engine do you still recommend the water= technique to get rid of the carbon created by the break-in period of the oi= l mixture. >=20 > Additionally additionally is standard oil miscible with both pre-mix and f= uel? >=20 > Additionally additionally and as well---Do you think that the water treat= ment should be done periodically and if so how often? When I rebuilt my mo= tor after only about 14K the rotors had significant carbon (which was a bit#= h to remove.) perhaps to do the water as a prophylactic treatment. >=20 > Thanks again again, again > Rich >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: lehanover lehanover@aol.com > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2020 12:49 pm > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis break-in >=20 > Cheap conventional oil in the premix at about 1/2 ounce per gallon as well= as in the crank case. The round rings are oil scrapers and are supposed to k= eep crank case oil out of the combustion chamber, same as a piston engine. D= o not tell anybody about this.......with a warm engine at 2,000 RPM...slowly= add 1 cup of water to the intake over several minutes. It will remove all o= f the carbon from the rotor face and free up sticking apex seals in most cas= es. Works on piston engines as well....like MAGIC. Saves hours of scraping.= On street cars it will plug up the reactor.....with carbon crap........... >=20 > You didn't hear it here..............Lynn E Hanover >=20 > In a message dated 6/28/2020 12:47:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 > On reading my last post, I just realized that the side seals (circular) ar= e indeed lubricated by crank case oil so the first part of my question was s= elf-answered. >=20 > That still leaves the pre-mix question. >=20 > Sorry for the multiple stream-of-consciousness questions. > Rich >=20 > In a message dated 6/28/2020 11:43:51 AM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 >=20 > Rethinking my last post, >=20 > I just realized that the typical rotary, in automotive use uses crankcase o= il for seal lubrication. > In my assembly, I will be using pre-mix in the fuel. the crankcase oil wil= l never see the chambers (if I am lucky). >=20 > Any advice from you or other on this list what to use for break-in pre-mix= ? > Since the bearings, bushing and eccentric shaft have been relatively untou= ched, (14K on engine since rebuild) it seems as synthetic in the case would b= e OK however, the rotors seem to have different needs on break-in >=20 > Rich >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 6/27/2020 12:08:01 PM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 > I used a Texaco fleet oil for two hours at 2000 RPM. Then dump the oil and= check the filter paper for metal. > Then 40 or 50 weight Redline racing oil. Never over 180 degrees on the coo= lant. Then a lap at part throttle then good for 9,600 RPM at full throttle.= No oil related failures in 35 years of racing. >=20 > You could do 4 hours at 2000 RPM no load or part load on fleet oil. Should= be plenty. Never over 180 degrees. > It worked for me...............Lynn E. Hanover >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 6/27/2020 10:00:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 > So I Googled break-in procedures for the RX8. >=20 > Less than 4000RPM for the first 600-1000 miles. >=20 > I don't see that happening. I don't think I can keep the RV-4 level at > less than 4,500 RPM, depending on prop. >=20 > And I sure want full power at takeoff and climb to pattern altitude. >=20 > I guess I could run it on the ground for 10 hours at varying RPMs below > 4000, but really? >=20 > What did you do with a new Renesis? >=20 > Finn >=20 >=20 > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html --Apple-Mail-063386C3-F4F3-4FE8-A29F-8CEFD6B9EC4A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =F0=9F=98=81=F0=9F=98=81=F0=9F=98=81 thanks= for your (all y=E2=80=99all) patience. 
Rich

Sent from my iPhone

O= n Jun 29, 2020, at 5:05 PM, lehanover l= ehanover@aol.com <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

That is correct. Fear not. Even 1/2 ounce is far more t= han a stock engine gets at full tilt. Otherwise the sump would be empty in t= wo weeks. Most of the free engines gifted to me had been run dry of crank ca= se oil.

Still I got good irons and cranks an rotors out of most= of them.........LEH

In a message dated 6/29/2020 5:12:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:


Lynn,

I think that I am getting it.now . What you are saying i= s to use 1/2 oz/gal  poor quality crank case oil per gallon as a pre-mi= x and not use the standard pre-mix oil at all during the break-in. (am I clo= se?)

Thanks for bearing with me.

Rich


In a message dated 6/29/2020 1:53:23 PM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Not a full one ounce per gallon....One half ounce per g= allon....of crank case oil. The same poor quality oil as you will have in th= e sump. You need the side seals, the corner seals and the ends of the apex s= eals to become friendly with the irons.  The break in period is very sh= ort. Two to six hours over several days. Never over 180 degrees on coolant. A= t 2,000 to 2,500 RPM. This is not a heavy load. A great time to see if any l= eaks have developed or the exhaust is melting something.  A fresh engin= e will not be fouled with carbon in this amount of time.  If the engine= is coming apart for annual or any other reason, do it for one housing but n= ot the other.
Remember what you see. If you use a synthetic case oil a= nd a racing synthetic top oil you will not need this at all.

The water idea is for an engine that is about to come a= part for overhaul. Or a street car that is nearly junk and running poorly. D= isconnect the reactor before you do this. Every bit of carbon that was in th= e engine will soon be in the reactor.....and ruin the reactor.  This is= not my idea. I saw this happen to a Chevy van that had a dead cylinder and I= was shocked. Then "Hemi" Ranken said just wait until we take a head off.&nb= sp; So I did and then I saw  150,000 mile cylinder head and pistons loo= king as though new. Not one speck of carbon.  I cannot stop doing it. I= t is so much more pleasant to work on a clean engine.

Look at the filter paper.....Go to town with new oil an= d two cycle in the premix...LEH

In a message dated 6/29/2020 11:31:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Head still breaking-in3D"Unamuse=

Len, just to clarify,

Do you mean to put an additional 1/2 o= z per gal conventional oil in the already added premix (about 1.5 oz total p= re and conventional oil?).

Additionally in a newly overhauled en= gine do you still recommend the water technique to get rid of the carbon cre= ated by the break-in period of the oil mixture.

Additionally additionally is standard= oil miscible with both pre-mix and fuel?

Additionally additionally  and a= s well---Do you think that the water treatment should be done periodically a= nd if  so how often?  When I rebuilt my motor after only about 14K= the rotors had significant carbon (which was a bit#h to remove.) perhaps to= do the water as a prophylactic treatment.

Thanks again again, again
Rich



-----Original Message-----
From: lehanover lehanover@aol.com &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2= 020 12:49 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis break-in

Cheap conventional oil in the premix at about 1/2 ounce= per gallon as well as in the crank case. The round rings are oil scrapers a= nd are supposed to keep crank case oil out of the combustion chamber, same a= s a piston engine. Do not tell anybody about this.......with a warm engine a= t 2,000 RPM...slowly add 1 cup of water to the intake over several minutes. I= t will remove all of the carbon from the rotor face and free up sticking ape= x seals in most cases.  Works on piston engines as well....like MAGIC. S= aves hours of scraping. On street cars it will plug up the reactor.....with c= arbon crap...........

You didn't hear it here..............Lynn E Hanover
=

In a message dated 6/28/2020 12:47:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

On reading my last post, I just realized that the side s= eals (circular) are indeed lubricated by crank case oil  so the first p= art of my question was self-answered.

That still leaves the pre-mix question.

Sorry for the multiple stream-of-consciousness question= s.
Rich

In a message dated 6/28/2020 11:43:51 AM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:


Rethinking my last post,

I just realized that the typical rotary, in automotive= use uses crankcase oil for seal lubrication.
In my assembly, I will be using pre-mix in the fuel. th= e crankcase oil will  never see the chambers (if I am lucky).

Any advice from you or other on this list what to use f= or break-in pre-mix?
Since the bearings, bushing and eccentric shaft have be= en relatively untouched, (14K on engine since rebuild) it seems as synthetic= in the case would be OK however, the rotors seem to have different needs on= break-in

Rich


In a message dated 6/27/2020 12:08:01 PM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

I used a Texaco fleet oil for two hours at 2000 RPM. Th= en dump the oil and check the filter paper for metal.
Then 40 or 50 weight Redline racing oil. Never over 180= degrees on the coolant.  Then a lap at part throttle then good for 9,6= 00 RPM at full throttle. No oil related failures in 35 years of racing.
<= /span>

You could do 4 hours at 2000 RPM no load or part load o= n fleet oil. Should be plenty. Never over 180 degrees.
It worked for me...............Lynn E. Hanover


In a message dated 6/27/2020 10:00:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

So I Googled break-in procedures for the RX8.

Less than 4000RPM for the first 600-1000 miles.

I don't see that happening. I don't think I can keep the RV= -4 level at
less than 4,500 RPM, depending on prop.

And I sure want full power at takeoff and climb to pattern a= ltitude.

I guess I could run it on the ground for 10 hours at varyin= g RPMs below
4000, but really?

What did you do with a new Renesis?

Finn


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus s= oftware.


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