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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:06:34 +1000 Message-ID: <001101d63ae6$53461800$f9d24800$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQMmLSg4lebz5wtc8S2FgnSycKak7KYpbQ+w Content-Language: en-us Finn, Have kept out to date as I am computer illiterate as well = as stupid. Now you are getting into my experience, rough running. I = spent many hours trying to get my engine to not miss at higher revs. In = the end it was mixture. It was too rich of all things. The rotary = seems very sensitive to mixture. My $0,02 cents worth. Neil. -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:40 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First engine run -- prop or not? I stand corrected. Got the washer/o-rings in the mail today. Installed in pump-assembly. No = leaks (tested to the 38psi I set the pressure regulator to). Thanks to = Bill for the tip on those kind of washers! Ran the engine again. Still no RPM readout. I have messed up the = programming of the EM3 with all my changes. (I now have eight 2 volt = channels, eight 5 volt channels, eight CHT, eight EGT plus battery = voltage, MAP, RPM, Fuel Flow and MPG. Yes 36 channels output to data log = USB stick every second or so. Engine still runs very rough. Can't keep it running. All four plugs firing. All injectors clicking. I guess the next step is to verify wiring from J2 to individual = connectors. Not sure what to look for with a timing light (if I can get the engine = to run long enough to use it). How do I find TDC on the stock Renesis timing wheel? Finn On 6/4/2020 7:23 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > Hi Finn and all. > > As the years have gone by its hard to remember various things but: > 1. The EC2 .asm file (Actual EC2 Controller code - for non coders)=20 > that I think I reprogrammed my EC2 with years ago is called EC2CL8.asm = The CL is a hint me thinks. > 2. I have a recollection that I had the mode#1 autotune function (not = the original EM3 capability) working years ago ie. manually causing = mixture rich, and EC would trim it back. > > I=E2=80=99m headed for the hangar this morning so I=E2=80=99ll: > 1. First I=E2=80=99ll try using mode#5 to change the O2 setting and = see if my software version has this capability. I have both narrow and = wideband sensors. > I think when I last tried the autotune feature I had the wideband = connected but the data dump confirms its setup for a narrowband sensor. > 2. If it does change in the Data Dump Screen - Row 1 Col 2 changing to = 16h (currently 12h) then I=E2=80=99ll then try out the autotune again. > 3. I=E2=80=99d like to know which version of the code its using and = how the mixture table is divided. Is it the 8 table version? > General mixture settings are sort off OK at the moment for TO and = cruise, but when we pull power and point her > at the ground she goes way lean and outside of the manual mixtures = controls ability to correct. > > For any non-coders that want to understand what we are talking about = here: > The Datadump screen presents the data in Hexadecimal not Decimal. > We can represent numbers using various number systems. We tend to see=20 > the world through the Decimal number system (Oh that the US had=20 > adopted it fully!!!!) In decimal each digit of a number can be 0-9=20 > (ten states - therefore called DECimal) Because of the nature of how=20 > digital computers, that inherently are simply millions of switches=20 > that can be ON or OFF binary is the native language (two states - 0 OR = > 1) So my EC2=E2=80=99s (8-bit) ENG CODE can visualised/represented as = > 00010010 binary OR 18 decimal OR 12 hexadecimal > > But reading binary is much more difficult for our brains and we can = process this so much faster represented by 2 Hex digits rather than 8 = binary digits. > - so each digit has the range 0-16 (16 states 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B=20 > C D E F) > > So my ENGCODE - 12h in DataDump Screen is -> 00010010 binary Binary is = > written from right to left) > =20 > Bit 0 - Non Turbo (0) > > Bit 1 - Large Secondaries (1) > > Bit 2 - Narrow Band O2 Sensor (0) > > Bit 3 - Temp Sensor (0) > > Bit 4 - Rotary (1) > > Bit 5 - BUSensor (0) > > Bit 6 - Cont > > Bit 7 - CSON > > Hoping thats not unhelpful! > > Steve Izett > > > > > >> On 5 Jun 2020, at 2:33 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >> >> To clarify, here is an excerpt from the EC3 manual: >> >> "CLOSED LOOP MODES OF OPERATION. >> NOTE! As of 9-12-2012 the EC3 includes a BETA version of the = software that enables 2 closed loop modes as described below. DO NOT = enable them in flight until you are certain they are working properly on = the ground. You should also follow the instructions for setting up = Mode 3 and 1 BEFORE trying these Closed Loop modes of operation. >> >> Before attempting operation in Closed loop mode, Make sure you have = selected the type of O2 sensor you are using for either Narrow Band or = Wideband sensors. See Mode 5 instructions for details on doing this. >> >> There are two closed loop modes. When Mode 1 is selected with = Cold Start switch ON the controller monitors the mixture and trims the = injection to keep mixture close to the mixture point programmed in Mode = 0A as long as the basic programming is within trim range which is = pretty wide. If this mode is working properly you should see the EC3 = bring the mixture back to the set point after making a manual mixture = control adjustment that would normally take it out of range. If you = can't verify this, do not try the auto program mode of closed loop (Mode = 3) >> >> The target for the closed loop modes is set in Mode 0A, engine = running, Mode 0 selected and cold start switch off. With the engine = running and warmed up, adjust the mixture control to the desired = operating point by observing the mixture monitor. If the monitor isn't = working for any reason don't try to set this until it is. When at the = desired mixture, press the Store button. The mixture target should now = be set. >> >> The other closed loop mode (Mode 3 selected with Cold Start switch = ON) is the auto programming mode that adjusts the MAP table. It works = the same way but uses a narrow trim range and updates the map table if = necessary to keep the mixture near the mixture point programmed in Mode = 0A . Since the loop is all internal to the EC3 it happens faster than = the EM2/3 auto program mode in earlier versions and of course does not = require the EM2/3 to work. Should eliminate a lot of tuning headaches = for some builders. Manual programming Modes 1 & 3 operate as described = later in this manual with Cold Start switch off". >> >> Looks like for the stand-alone EC3 auto tune it must have the = Closed-loop option. >> >> Does you EC2 have that? >> >> Finn >> >> >> On 6/4/2020 1:58 PM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote: >>> I also have the EC2 & EM2 with the autotune. It does work, but it = only makes changes to the map table at the address that you are = currently on due to your throttle position. Moving your throttle = position to other addresses will result in gaps where it is hard to hit = each address using the auto tune. At this point though you should have a = decent base line to work with and you can just manually go through the = table to make adjustments as it will be obvious which ones need to be = adjusted. Then repeat as required. >>> But as Andrew pointed out it uses a narrow-band O2 sensor, so it is = not great. I have a PLX wide-band O2 sensor that also has a narrow-band = output that feeds the input to the EM2. I can't say for sure but it did = seem to give a more responsive signal to the EM2, which improved the = auto tune. But as it also gives a very accurate and responsive wide-band = output to it's own display, which is essential for fine tuning manually. >>> >>> Todd Bartrim >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:57 AM Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au = wrote: >>> I have 2007 EC2, EM2 has autotune feature, I just found it quicker = to tune manually as its setup for narrowband o2 sensor, but used = wideband. >>> Andrew >>> >>> On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 10:14 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >>> I doubt there's auto tune in the EC2, but what do I know? >>> >>> OK, looked in EC2 source code, last comment ;10-09-05 (Oct 2005), so = >>> I doubt it. >>> There's also source code for EC2F, what ever that is. Latest comment = >>> there is ;03-16-12 >>> >>> No mention of auto tune in either. >>> >>> I could be wrong. >>> >>> Finn >>> >>> On 6/4/2020 9:01 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Hi Finn & all >>>> >>>> Can anyone using an EC2 confirm if the Autotune functions works for = them? >>>> Not the autotune built into the EM3 engine monitor, the EC2 = version. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Steve Izett >>>> >>>>> On 2 Jun 2020, at 10:10 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Finn >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the updated EC3 doc. I had an older version. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>>> On 2 Jun 2020, at 9:28 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, after putting the EC3 into injector test mode and checking = that each is clicking (screwdriver as stethoscope) and into ignition = test mode and see that all four plugs are firing, that would be my next = step. >>>>>> >>>>>> You say you've already checked that the wiring to coils and = injectors are correct: >>>>>> J2-3 Prim Inj 1 >>>>>> J2-4 Sec Inj 1 >>>>>> ... >>>>>> J2-10 Trail Coil 1 >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>> I continuously surprised myself on how often I'd wired something = wrong, in spite of trying to be very careful about getting it right. I = wasn't kidding about Murphy working overtime. >>>>>> It's easy to get the pin numbering wrong on the connectors. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I were getting desperate, I would remove (one at a time) the = connectors on the injectors and coils and check continuity from J2 pin = to the connector pin. >>>>>> (You know that the power side are correct because works with EC2) = >>>>>> Finn Got the copper washers in the mail today, but think I'll=20 >>>>>> wait for these: >>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/293592023854 >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/1/2020 7:30 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks Finn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I had a chance to unpack the dump last night and conquer with = your reflection. >>>>>>> I=E2=80=99m in the dark re the EC3. Checked wiring twice now. >>>>>>> I must put a cro on the injectors and coils to confirm they are = triggering correctly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1 Jun 2020, at 9:59 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net = wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Program Mode 5 (Reset function) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As of 01-25-13 the EC3 can be used with either the common = narrowband O2 sensors or the more advanced wideband sensor systems. Be = sure to verify that your wideband sensor outputs in the range of 0 - +5 = volts if using a wideband type. To select the type in use, use the = power up program mode method below: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To select the O2 sensor type , perform the following steps: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Turn the EC3 power off. >>>>>>>> 2. Select mode 5 with the Mode Select switch 3. Select the O2 = >>>>>>>> sensor type using the Cold Start switch: Up =3D Wideband, Down = =3D=20 >>>>>>>> Narrowband 4. Press and hold the Program Store switch. >>>>>>>> 5. While holding down the Program Store switch, turn on the = power switch to the EC3. >>>>>>>> 6. Keep holding the Program Store switch for about 1 second, = and then release it. >>>>>>>> 7. Return the Mode Select switch to 0. >>>>>>>> 8. Power the EC3 off. When the EC3 is powered up again it = will be set for the O2 sensor type selected. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Uploaded doc to: >>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mVzPOxUwcGUlPizxnRF40nU >>>>>>>> yKBzfT4DC?usp=3Dsharing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PDF version still states that B is automatically programmed = when A is programmed. Not true. Use the Word doc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finn >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/1/2020 9:16 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Finn >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How does the mode 5 O2 sensor change work. >>>>>>>>> Ive not found this in the EC3 documentation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 31 May 2020, at 4:08 am, Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Finn >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thats good news. >>>>>>>>>> At some point I=E2=80=99ll plug the EC3 in and see what the = EM3 reports. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We=E2=80=99re finally back in the air and testing again after = the last 3 months of responding to COVID here in Perth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Last mods included some reshaping of inlets and diffusers and = tidying up the inlet manifold (grinding smooth some weld that had = penetrated into the runners). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yesterday our Renesis 4 port max fuel flow is up 10% to I = think a reasonably accurate 18 gal/hr at 7100rpm, 29.5 inch of MAP and = mixture at best power. >>>>>>>>>> We burn our Australian Premium Unleaded with no Ethanol which = I believe is 6.26 lb/gal so I=E2=80=99m thinking thats around 190hp. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 31 May 2020, at 12:58 am, Finn Lassen = finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Wrong engine code solved! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I looked at the dates of files in the EC3CL folder. These = files were not updated to the date I programmed the EC3: >>>>>>>>>>> ECCL8.cof >>>>>>>>>>> ECCL8.map >>>>>>>>>>> ECCL8.O >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So I started from scratch: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Unzipped the EC3CL folder. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Set ENG =3D A8; LS2COIL, LGSEC and WIDEBAND to 1 and rest to = 0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Did "Erase", "Clean" and "Build All" and "Program" in MPLAB = and reinstalled chip for controller A. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now EM3 correctly shows "A8" for engine code. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Changed to narrow band using mode 5, and EM3 display = correctly changed from 16 to 12 for ENGINFO. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I must have chosen the "Make" option in MPLAB when I first = programmed the chips, I guess. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately I must have damaged the controller B CPU chip = when handling it (MPLAB reports device ID =3D 0) and will have to order = a new one. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Finn >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Still waiting for the $1.79 shipped copper washers to arrive = >>>>>>>>>>> in mail. Maybe I should bite the bullet and order five (six) = >>>>>>>>>>> Stat-O-Seal washer/O-rings at $8.56 per pack of two. $25.68=20 >>>>>>>>>>> total :( >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> -- >>> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag >> > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html